Dog Advice & Discussion :: Dog Chat

We in UK are coming into spring, there are probably many new dog owners who are unaware of the common and very serious dangers of  ‘Blue Green Alga’.

In the mid late eighties  Blue Green Alga started to appear in a minority of still water places, as far as I know this was pretty much confined to S England at the time.

Unfortunately this has now spread throughout the UK and all still water facilities from tiny stagnant rain traps to large lakes are affected by it, another unfortunate thing is there are no warning signs on many of the facilities, although there is on some.

The Alga gives off spores which  are in the water, picked up by the dog and either licked off itself or can be picked up by playing with dogs who have it on their coats after swimming.

If affected there is no treatment, it attacks all organs and as I understand it the kidneys die as well as the liver, the dogs caught out with it die in excruciating pain. I have unfortunately known several dogs who died as a result and all because no warning signs were up and the owners knew nothing about it.

It will start in S England as soon as we get warm weather, which is beginning around now, it blossoms later the more North you go due to the climate. I will stop my own dog going in any still water facilities by the end of March or before if we get prolongued warm weather.

 Please remember there is no treatment and survival is unknown in dogs affected. I felt the info was worth the space of a sticky.
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Gastric Torsion or BLOAT.

he other Fatal condition, Gastric Tortion, is worth a mention for those with deep chested dogs.

Gastric Torion is another condition which affects deep chested dogs from which few dogs survive. There are several suspected causes and I am not sure if any of them are conclusivly proven.

The symptoms are unexpected wretching, there amy be pain and consequent cries or agonising screems or none of these vocalisations. As far as I know gases in the gut build up and the gut itself starts to twist, there will almost certainly be some vomit motions but I have also heard this is not always the case.

The gut starts to bloat as it twists inside the dog and heart failure is not far away.

One vet told me that sea water intake can start it, even a small drop by licking its coat, that does not mean that if a dog licks seawater off its coat it will get Tortion.

Gulping of food and haveing the food placed at floor level is also suspected as contributary.

As far as the two above occasional causes are concerned no swimming in sea water and wearing a muzzle on the beach are two safeguards and raising food and water off the floor are precaustions I take and many other deep chested dog owners take.

If you do not get the dog to the vets within 15 minuets of the onset recovery is rare, in older dogs they might have problems comeing out of anasthesia. If you think it's happening to your dog you have only minuets so if you find a vet forget ques, just barge in in front of everyone and shout to the nurse Tortion, they start to ansathetise and open up immediatly.

I am aware there other suspected contributary factors and I hope people post them here.
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Jojo,

I can only agree with this from personal experience as UK Scuba Diving Instructor. We see this in the water as particals and the clarity drops considerably.

During this time before more settled weather its not uncommon to see divers to have been in the water to have rashes etc on exposed parts of the body.

So if it does that to Human skin then imagine the effect on it being ingested. The only way that we have found by experience was to dump several bales of hay into the water which the algae seems attracted to and traps there.

But I think that carrying a bale of hay around on a dog walk may be a little much - the answer being to just leave alone me thinks  :D

Marrus

Replaced onto first post.

JoJo, thanks for posting this warning - my uncle's GSD died back in 1987 after swimming in a lake due to the algae (we are in S. England, so this matches with the information you're providing), and I know the park where the lake is does now have warning signs up.

With regards to your other post about gastric torsion - this sounds horrific, it's not something I've ever heard of.  Just a few questions - is a Staffie cross a deep-chested dog (remember I'm a novice to all this!)?   How far off the floor would you raise the food?  Also, is this a rare condition, or does it happen quite regularly.  Once again, thanks for mentioning it, I'll definitely keep Buster away from swimming in the sea - we walk quite often on the beach, and it's one of his favourite pastimes!

TJay

Hi TJ I'm glad you posted about the GSD, there are hundreds of small rain trap type pools all over the place that no one really thinks about and they are breeding grounds for it. Your post makes the serious and all to common occurence of it hit home, so many new dog owners know nothing of these things.

Personaly I think Staffs etc are deep chested dogs but they seem to have more breadth than a lot of deep chested dogs, it is to do with the physical struture, I read about it once but cannot remember exactly what it was that made it happen.

I don't know how common it really is, I think some breeds more than others are prone to it, certainly Dobermanns are vulnerable, I lost one with it and its not all that uncommon in the breed.

Its best to feed and water at about head height so they don't have to bend down at all, the problem is that is beleived to decrease the risk not make it risk free.

Never excercise your or ANY dog after excercise, always excercise and then feed, if its been an energetic excercise give it an hour or so before feeding.

Hi all,
I have had first hand experience of gastric torsion (spelt T O R S I O N) or bloat as it is sometimes called.
Torsio ventriculi (Stomach rotation) is prevalant in certain breeds mostly deep chested such as Weimaraners, Great Danes, GSD's, Setters etc.
THERE IS A NEW TRAIN OF THOUGHT THAT FEEDING IN A RAISED DISH CAN ACTUALLY DO MORE HARM THAN GOOD!
I usualy feed dogs SLIGHTLY raised maybe 8 to 10 inches off the floor.
If you know what you are looking for you have got longer than 15 minutes to get to the vets, but JoJo is right this is a true canine emergency ( not unlike colic in a horse).
There is such a thing called ear slides ( I once saved a horses life with this) . If you are rushing to the vet with a torsion the person sitting with the dog would be well employed rubbing the dogs ears from the base to the tip with your thumbs on the inside of the ear flap all the way.
It apparently massages every acupressure point in the dogs body and can reduce the gases in the stomach.
If you suspect torsion the simplest way to diagnose it, is at onset of symptoms take a piece of string and measure round the dogs stomach, do this every 5 minutes if the stomach is distending (ie you need more string to get around the stomach) then OFF TO THE VETS NOW!!
Sometimes the stomach does not bloat another symptom is the dog being sick and a real clue is if the dog is laying in the phoenix position when it doesnt usually and if the dog is stretching.
DO NOT FEED dry kibble, always soak it well so that it cannot swell in the dogs gut, when feeding dont let the dog drink copious amounts of water soon after, in fact if you have a dog which drinks a lot of water it is better to put down half a pint several times a day rather than filling a bowl with 4 pints.
DO NOT exercise either just before feeding or just after feeding and if you have a BIG dog then do not feed an enormous meal once a day feed twice a day and ideally three times.
If you have had a dog that has had torsion there is an operation the vets can do to prevent the stomach twisting, although I do not know if this will also prevent the spleen torsioning, one of my boarding Weimaraners did this!!  She is still alive and well :)

Thanks for all this information - it is something I know little about. I have had dogs all my life but this is my first experience of deep chested dogs - I have a lurcher (greyhound cross) and a whippet. I was aware of the feeding raised off the ground issue but not with the water issue.
I live very near the sea and also there are a few ponds on the local common so I shall be very careful in future - thanks for all the good advice

Only to pleased to give it Tempest, I only wish I had known about Tortion and seawater risks on 13/03/95 when I walked on the Hunstanton beach.

THERE IS A NEW TRAIN OF THOUGHT THAT FEEDING IN A RAISED DISH CAN ACTUALLY DO MORE HARM THAN GOOD!

Someone one another board has Lurchers and she was feeding on the floor when a dog got this, so she started to feed with the bowls raised, and the other dog got it.

The height that we feed our dogs is one of those grey areas that we can only find the right height for our dogs by watching the dog.

We can research like mad and try and follow every bit of advice we can.  We can take every precaution, and still our dogs will get sick, but that tatty, dirty animal down the road who only gets fed when the owner remembers, never gets anything wrong with him.   Probably a good job because they won't notice that he is ill.

Rottie

If you are rushing to the vet with a torsion the person sitting with the dog would be well employed rubbing the dogs ears from the base to the tip with your thumbs on the inside of the ear flap all the way.
It apparently massages every acupressure point in the dogs body and can reduce the gases in the stomach.

JoJo
Thats dam good advice and new to me.

CANINE BLOAT
               ( GASTRIC DILATATION-VOLVULUS COMPLEX )

This information is based on articles written by the veterinarians Siefried Zahn and Robert D. Hott

Canine bloat is a serious medical condition of dogs and a life-threatening emergency. It is termed Gastric Dilatation-Volvulus Complex as this describes the course of events. Almost every breed of dog has been affected by GDV but the condition is seen more commonly in large breeds. The Great Dane, Irish Wolfhound and German Shepherd Dog seem to be especially susceptible.

The exact cause of GDV has not been determined with any certainty :-

GDV is widely believed to be caused by excessive swallowing of air while eating, gastrointestinal secretions, and gas from food fermenting in the stomach. Some veterinarians feel that susceptible dogs are born with their stomachs slightly out of position allowing it to twist more easily. Dogs that eat rapidly and then exercise heavily may also be at increased risk. Apparently the heavy, food-filled stomach acts like a pendulum, swinging back and forth until it twists on itself. Composition of the diet does not generally seem to be a cause, nor does it seem to matter whether the dog eats canned or dry food. In older dogs tumors of the spleen or stomach may cause twisting and subsequent blockage. Eating indigestible foreign material may also cause bloating.

Whatever the cause, affected dogs all show similar signs :-

Symptoms typical of GDV are anxiety, evidence of abdominal fullness after meals, heavy salivating, whining, pacing, getting up and lying down, stretching, looking at abdomen, unproductive attempts to vomit, labored breathing, disinterest in food, and stilted gait. More severe symptoms follow, such as dark red, blue, grey or white gums, a rapid heartbeat and a weak pulse.

Initially affected dogs are anxious, restless, not interested in food or water, vomit once or twice then follow this with retching and gagging motions which are usually unproductive. There are no abnormal bowel movements. After 30-60 minutes the dog begins to appear swollen in its midsection due to accumulation of gas in the stomach. Dogs begin to pant heavily and breathing becomes rapid and shallow. In most cases of GDV, the stomach undergoes a "volvulus" or twist. This closes both the esophagus (inlet) and pylorus (outlet) preventing the dog from relieving the gas pressure. The condition is rapidly fatal in dogs, causing shock, coma, and death within 6-12 hours. Diagnosis is relatively easy based on breed, history, and clinical signs though your vet may take x-rays of the abdomen to confirm the diagnosis.

If you suspect your dog may be showing signs call your vet AT ONCE for instructions

Treatment is aimed at reducing the gas pressure and returning the stomach to its normal position. Your vet will remove pressure via a stomach tube or trocar tube through the body wall, then prepare the dog for exploratory surgery to find the exact problem and correct it. The stomach can be tacked down (gastropexy) to help prevent recurrence, but these stitches may break down over time. Occasionally bloat can be treated without surgery by washing out the stomach with a special stomach tube.

Death loss due to GDV is very high (sadly, approximately half of the cases do not survive). Often owners delay in presenting the dog for emergency care because they are unaware of the seriousness of the condition. Also, once the stomach has undergone volvulus, many metabolic poisons build up resulting in damage to the stomach wall, liver, spleen, and heart muscle. Frequently these poisons will cause the heart to stop during surgery or they may circulate for several days post-operatively and continue to pose a threat. Post-operative infection can also cause problems.

Preventive strategy :-

Newer anesthesia methods have helped us treat this condition more successfully, but we are still unable to offer much in the way of preventive medicine. No medication or screen tests are available. The best advice at the present time is to

feed our large breed dogs small amounts more frequently,
avoid vigorous exercise, excitement and stress one hour before and two hours after feeding and avoid lots of twisting or rolling play particularly shortly after feeding (walking is okay because it helps stimulate normal gastrointestinal function),
ensure water is always available but limit the amount immediately after feeding,
watch for any actions or behavior that may signal abdominal discomfort (abdominal fullness, pacing, salivating, whining, getting up and lying down, stretching, looking at abdomen, anxiety and unsuccessful attempts to vomit, etc.)

On the subject of Gastric Torsions...
One breed that is highly susceptible to this is the greyhound, but like jojo said, all deepchested dogs are at risk (bear in mind that it isnt limited to deepchested dogs only, it's just more common in them). I have seen a few cases of this awful condition, and the success rate once at the vets is high, but these dogs rarely make it that far. Although it usually has a rapid onset, I have seen a black lab with this who started with the initial symptoms 2 days before it arrived at our vets. The most important things to remember are to give your dogs small frequent meals, and limit them before and after exercise (at least an hour either way). This condition can however come on with no exercise. My advice is to be aware of the symptoms, and take your dog to the vets straight away even if you're not sure.
Kathy
xxx

Gosh that all sounds awful!

On holiday in Scotland recently, we were told by the owners of the B & B that the local watersport centre on the loch had been closed because blue algae had been found in the water.

I didn't realise how serious it was and having read this, I thank God that when we took the dogs to the loch before we were told about the blue algae, we couldn't find any part of the 'coast' of it that didn't have weeds and slurpy mud, so couldn't let them swim in it. :shock:

Thanks goodness we didn't!

Great advice on this thread !
I have a deep chested dog Weim x and I will heed the warnings.
What do you use to soak their kibble,so far I have used weak gravy do you think this is ok ?

I know this is an old thread but  
if this is true

but how can i avoided it if some people still let there dogs go into the water and then my dog plays with them? Does it mean not going to parks with water? i'm in the south (east)  and this is worrying!

Hi, I am a very good freind of JoJo's.

I am in S East as well, what I don't know about the algea is when the spores have gone for another year, they come in the first warm weather and used to see notices up in Richmond untill Autumn and as far as I know it hangs around till then.

I will never let my dog play with dogs which have been in infected water and if owners allow there dogs to come close after I ask them not to and say why, most take notice and keep their own dogs out.

There is a big lack of notices in most places, as far as going to parks withouyt water it depends on the control you have over your own dog.

I am not sure if DEFRA can help you with anymore info on this thing but I am sure they will put you in the right direction, in the meantime take it very seriouse especialy with this heatwave.
DEFRA 0845 933 5577

Don't you mean contaminated, rather than infected?  Infected would mean it carried a disease, whereas contamination means to spoil the purity of something or make it poisonous :)
Thanks for the info though, someone on another board had a dog poisonned by this, and it took him a while to recover  :(

LisaQ
Don't you mean contaminated, rather than infected?

Denis
Metaphoricaly they are the same thing in the context they were written.

thanks for your advice, i understood what u ment :oops:

As far as I am aware there is absolutely no connection between drinking sea water and gastric torsion.Gastric Torsion can not be caught as it is not an infection,nor my vet says has he ever heard of a dog getting bloat through drinking sea water.

What about garden ponds?I live in the South East and I have a large garden pond. It is filtered and aeriated but algae does form in it. mostly filamentous algae but I see it floating free in the water too. Im worried about my dog now because she plays near it and I have seen her drink from it.

Thank you for the advice about gastric torsion. I sadly have seen the suffering this causes and lost my best childhood friend to this :cry:  but was never told how to avoid it or what caused it. I shall change my dogs feeding habits from now on. Thank you all so very much.

I don't th ink  you need to worry too much about garden ponds, especially at this time of year.  Blue Green Algae is a very particular beastie and very distinctive in appearence. I've tried to find some photos on the net, but none seem to show the real difference between a normal pond and the one with the algae - probably because of the polarising effect of sunlight/reflection :(  It normally only blooms in the UK after several weeks of no rain and very warm temps (and I don't think we're in that situation at the moment  :wink: )

What does this algae look like?
I'm worried because there are a lot of ponds with algae in them which my dogs have been in.  :(
Rachel

On bloat: the veterinary dept. of Purdue University in the US has done a five-year study with over 1600 dogs and comes to these conclusions:

- risk increases with age: 20% increase in risk for each year
- risk is greater for dogs with deep narrow chests (chest depth/width ratio)
- raising the food bowl increases the risk: 110% increase
- risk is greater for dogs with a first-degree relative that has had bloat: 63% increase in risk
- fast eaters are at greater risk if they're large dogs
- large meals increase the risk
- dry food with fat listed as one of the first four ingredients increases the risk (as I understand it, this has to do with whether large amounts of fat are added as a separate component; it doesn't directly have to do with the fat content of the food)

Website: http://www.vet.purdue.edu/epi/bloat.htm

Cheers,
Sal