Hi Lisa.
I can understand your view as I too have had the luxury of having healthy dogs in the past however, some of your points need some clarification to even it up abit for owners who might be interested.

Lisa said
yet their alternatives cost as much if not more

These sort of websites should be avoided as they are only out to make money with scare stories which of course, cloud the whole issue. I have also yet to meet a fully qualified holistic vet who will guarantee nosodes (homeopathic vacc's) as there isn't any scientific evidence to show if they do or don't work.

Lisa said
(and are less reliable than conventional medecine).

Would I be right in thinking you've had no experience with holistic meds either?
The majority of conventional medicine is in fact man-made substitutes based on Eastern Medicine (what you call alternative) manufactured by the drugs companies.
Homeopathy is just one type of holistic medicine and a very powerful one at that, had it not been for a mixture of Homeopathy and other holistic medicine, I wouldn't have had the last 8 years with Max.

Lisa said
So if your dog is happy and healthy after being vaccinated - please don't stop vaccinating your dog because of something you read online.
 
Fair comment however, a dog can become compromised at any age regardless of it's vaccination history without showing any outward signs (both Max and Sam were roughly 6).
When you go for a booster the dog gets a clinical check up not a full screening so the vet can only go by what is presented at the time of the consultation meaning, without a full blood screening the vet has no idea if the dog is compromised or not.
Now I wouldn't recommend a full blood screening as no one would go for it especially if there *seems* to be no cause for concern however, titres are relatively cheap and since medicine is about prevention as well as cure, preventing other conditions should also be a priority.
We screen dogs pre-op to check their organ function so what's the difference between that and titre testing before vaccinating?
 
Lisa said
Vaccinations are safe for the majority -
 
This is true but what about the minority who do suffer any sort of reaction whether it be minor (3 in 5 dogs) or major (2 in 5 dogs), shouldn't other owners be made aware of such risks?
 
Lisa said
I've never met one dog owner who's said otherwise, other than on the internet.
 
The internet is a big place hence the reason why you hear more about all sorts of things.  Had you had first hand experience or met the people who live with the after-effects of over vaccinating you might have a different view.
 
Lisa said
but you wont find many happy satisfied owners surfing the internet for information and support on the detramental (sp?) effects of vaccinations if their dogs were ok
 
This is true, I would imagine finding a support group for healthy dogs or pro-vaccination would be very hard afterall, if your dogs healthy why do you need support?

Lisa said
So what you read on the internet can make it seem much more common than it actually is.
 
And the operative word there is SEEM......join a AI support group and ask about boosters, see what sort of response you get.
 
Lisa said
If the vaccinations were dangerous............they wouldn't sell them,
 
They sell them because of supply on demand just like any other business.  All vets have to carry vaccination report forms which are rarely filled in due to the fact that most owners don't know about them.  These forms provide vital information for the drug companies regarding vaccinations and reactions, now if there was no possibility of any problems why do they have to carry such forms?
 
Lisa said
they'd see a decline in customers wanting them,

You'd be surprised just how many are changing vets, some going to holistic vets who are firstly fully trained as conventional vets before specialising in holistic medicine.

Lisa said
and an increase in those looking for alternatives, and offer the most popular.

First off a fully qualified holistic vet will not offer the alternative as you call it as there isn't a proven alternative, a holistic vet will offer a titre test as well as a risk assessment regarding parvo & lepto.  A holistic vet is the same as a conventional one the only difference being they specialise in holistic medicine, they'll offer whatever the client wants but they also offer choices as are more and more conventional vets.
 
Clients are now becoming more informed and asking questions, more vaccine related conditions are being reported, vets have been put on the spot as have the drugs companies hence the reason why thousands has been ploughed into various studies over the years.  More and more vets are willing to titre test, vets that wouldn't have carried out such a test a couple of years ago.
 
Lisa said
So yes, in rare cases, some dogs may have a reaction (just like any other medecine) -
 
A few years ago serious reactions were rare but they are now on the increase if they weren't, why are professors, scientists, drugs companies and vets growing more concerned about the increase in reactions?
 
Lisa said
but for those getting a new pup or dog, please don't stop vaccinating because of something you read on the internet.
 
The internet provides education / information that you can discuss with your vet, no one in their right mind would do something just because they read it somewhere.
Luckily vets have to go by the manufacturers guidelines so any vet using the Intervet vaccine will have to follow the 3 year rule unless the client states different.

I agree with vaccination, what I am against is "over-vaccinating"  If the pup isn't a susceptable breed then I'll give them their puppy shots however, if the pup is a known *at risk* breed I usually get the shots in seperate vials giving them 2 weeks to a month apart.
As for older dogs, I titre them as well as doing a risk assessment for parvo & lepto, this way I'm covering all options.
 
Lisa said
Because not only are you risking your animal's life,
 
If you titre test and the results are highly immune, your not risking any animals life however, the parvo/lepto boosters are another matter although drug companies and labs are working on a titre test for both.

Lisa said
but you're risking the lives of others, who are not vaccinated due to age, illness, or allergies.
 
Okay Max fits in to all three catagories....he's 13, AI and allergic to everything and *was* fighting fit till yesterday however, his titres are always off the scale and is very rarely ill as such.
Let's break it down a little...

What causes illnesses?.....the dog being compromised in some way usually the immune system as that affects the whole body.
Where and why do we vaccinate?.....straight into the immune system to both boost and stimulate immunity.....
so we ask ourselves, can this cause problems?.....yes as your interferring with the immune system!

What causes allergies?.....alot of allergies are classed as seasonal, contact or dietry but they can also form the beginnings of AI.....

Flip side of the coin.....if your dog has allergies how can you be sure it is seasonal and not AI going by a clinical examination at the time of your annual booster?.....you don't unless your dog undertakes alot of very costly investigations so what do you do?......titre the dog, check it's immunity levels and take it from there.

Look at it this way......take a 4 year old dog with a full vaccination history.
Dogs got high immunity meaning it doesn't need vacc'd but you do it anyway.
The antibodies your putting into the dog via the vaccination are immediately attacked by the antibodies already there as they are foreign objects to the immune system....that means that the vacc's you've just given your dog are worthless, waste of money as they been evicted from the system....abit like trying to top up a pint mug that's not empty with another pint.

Lisa said
This new three year thing is interesting, though, and titre testing is a great idea (if you're worried or dog's had a previous problem, or is old etc).
 
Every owner should be worried regarding what they put into their dogs systems for various reasons, nothing is 100% safe for all dogs.
I also think that every owner has the right to all the information possible in order to make an informed decision based on the latest research available.
Not everyone knows that after a dogs initial vacc's the chances are it won't need boosters, (Intervet say 3 years some reports have said 7)......
Not everyone knows about titre tests so passing on this sort of info gives owners choices, they become more informed.
 
It must also be mentioned that not all reactions are serious, they can range from a rash at the injection point, feeling off colour for a few days to full blown AI so every case should be assessed on it's own merits.
 
Way I see it, owners vaccinate in order to prevent certain conditions so why not titre test in order to prevent other *possible* conditions?
 
Eloise

The vets seem to be as confused as everyone else on the vaccination issue.

One I talked to maintains that it's only because so many vaccinate on a regular basis (although he did say that he thought every 5 years would be sufficient) is what keeps us from a serious epidemic of parvo etc as the vaccinated dogs leave 'contaminated' saliva etc that unvaccinated dogs pick up through sniffing and thus gain some immunity that way (not well up on this so not sure if this is the case).

My own vet insists that while the vaccination for parvo etc will last five years, the lepto vaccination struggles to cover for the one year period and that if we do go down the route of longer gaps between vaccinations, and annual lepto vacc. will still be required.

Great claims are made for nosodes, but non of them proved. There are cases of dogs still getting parvo after nosode treatment, but then again there are still cases of dogs getting parvo after conventional vaccs. I do wonder though if the 'success' of nosodes rides on the back of conventional vaccs, ie would they be effective if there was a widespread epidemic?

As with all these things, it's the manufacturers that tend to sponsor research and they aren't likely to 'want' to find that fewer vaccinations are required.

More or less thinking out loud on this one as it's so confusing.

well i wouldn't bother having my lot done if it wasn't for the fact that i board them once a year!

Against, after reading this thread, and putting it together with my knowledge of human vacinations. Trust me, there are people out there who want to kill us with constant vaccinations.

Both my cats and dog have had their first set of vaccines, but I wouldn't vaccinate them again.

What I'd like to ask is, as people we have a set of vaccines when young, but we dont' have to keep going back to the doctors every year to have booster vaccinations, so what's the difference with an animal???

Hi all.
Annual Vaccinations (Boosters) For or Against
For    
  33%  [ 13 ]
Against    
  30%  [ 12 ]
Unsure    
  35%  [ 14 ]
 
Total Votes : 39
 as of today  

I grew-up on a farm and we have had 40+ dogs over the years, Racing Greyhounds, pet greyhounds, collies, Jap' spitz, chinese crested, akitas, dobermans.  Allmost all had their 1st injection (apart from the older ones which already came with a history) and that was that. Never had any problems, my experience tells me only one is needed, and thats what I plan to stick to.