Question to Cockermum...
Do you and the owner of the stud have to notify KC and apply for permission to mate that particular pair prior to any mating taking place? I ask because in Germany, with Dobermanns they must both notify the breed registration club prior to any mateing -  I think, but I am not 100% sure - that the club itself must approve the genetic combination, the reason is that it reuduces risk of herditory disorders being transmitted.

So what happens here?

Good heavens I am amazed, seriously, I knew it was close to useless....but.
Well, do they write to the stud dog owner and confirm a mating with his his dog has taken place?..I mean are there any precautions of any kind, anything at all?? >serious question.

Thanks Hennaly......the stud dog owner could also have filled in a form for a dead champ, he could also have recieved a payment from someone else with a non registered dog and simply filled the form in for a price -

Things need changing now, not tommorow, that takes people 'cause at the end of the day it will only change if people want it to change and people can change it by going the FCI route, the door is open to FCI, just a matter getting the standards in place - starting a new breed registration for the individual breed and getting FCI acceptance, all that needs is willing people and they new club would then be showing and breeding at international level, not this cut off island mentility not yet discovered by civilised dogdom.

You  do have to pay £12 to register each pup, so i wouldn't want to put any more money the KC's way

OK what about this for a scenario.

Let's say a UK trainer has a champion stud dog. A really great animal who has also proved himself as a 'producer' of really great dogs.

This dog's pedigree is acurate and he is now the sire of many other champions.

He is, let's say, 6 years of age and is coming toward the end of his life as a top flight stud in the UK.

His owner receives a call from America from a kennel owner who would like to purchase this great dog because the blood lines would be perfect overseas and even though his popularity as a stud in the UK is declining, he'd be as popular as ever in a new country.

A sale is agreed (lots of money) and the dogs is exported. We'll say for argument's sake that he's a black Labrador.

The dog reaches America, all paperwork in hand and he begins a new life as a stud dog over there.

Only, and here's the thing, the original owner didn't really want to sell his highly productive stud dog so the dog he actually sent to America was a 'stand in'. A 6 year old Black Labrador that looked just like the dog they were expecting, was well bred and could pass for a retired working dog.

The UK owner now has his original champion but he's swapped the paperwork so the American dog is living as the champion (hence his entire pedigree is wrong and all the offspring he ever produces is also) and the UK dog is living the life of the dog that was actually sent to America, again all of his offspring is now incorrect as well.

Of course this is a made up scenario but how naive would it be to assume it did not happen when large sums of money are involved.

If it happen in just a handful of cases it still means the pedigree of thousands and thousands of dogs of several generations are not worth the paper they're written on. Given the fact that it is the KC who 'approve' or 'certify' the authenticity of a 'pedigree' dog are they doing enough to ensure dubious breeding practices such as the scenario I described never happens?

In fact with the KC standards all it needs is a close X breed, then if you have a bitch, simply buy the X breeds pups between the registered bitch owner and the male stud owner and split the proffits - look alikes are easily passed off to innocent pet owners.

Yes, I knew things were serious with the KC in many areas but I never realised it was like this - people must have thought I had flipped when I wrote that bit, below, well its quite literaly standard normal practice and a longs standing part of the psyche of all owners and breeders as far as Euro Dob breeders and owners goes, they quite literaly could not get their minds around anything less, it's my thinking too, this has been quite an eye opener for me. I know the other working breeds breeds are seriously stringent in Europe but I dont what each breed has to do.

Yuppypuppy
This is the situation in every country in Europe with Dobermanns except UK, it is the first part of the fit for breeding test and takes place at around 7 weeks old. An authorised member of the breed registration club visits the home of the dam and her litter. They check all the paperwork etc then cross check it with the dams ear tattoo, the representative then tattoos the ear of every pup in the litter which is then entered in the breed registry, that is the dogs registration number. In other words every single Dobermann in the whole of Europe (except here) has been 100% identifiable since it was 7 weeks old. DNA is compulsory in some countries and not others but a lot of breeders use it, others dont. The method of ear tattooing by the breed registration club authourised rep is as secure as it can get IMO.

OMG cocker mum..   Gosh how could anyone do that   .   Having done everything by the book like you,   one has to question how can they live with the guilt. I couldn't.