Denis_Carthy
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« on: December 20, 2006, 02:00: PM » |
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Silly me, little numbskull that I am, I kept forgetting to post this. E-Collars were banned in Italy, I am not quite sure if the legislation had been drawn up and was due to come into force shortly or if it was allready was in force and the act (as we would understand it) was repealed. Certainly in Italy some thought it was in force, I was told by an Italian trainer within this past year it was in force but that was a broken English disccussion by phone and e might have meant it had been passed but was not in force at that time. The ban was lifted 3 months ago and is now a closed subject. The Italian MPs/Senators or whatever they have over there received new information which was not made available to them previously and which proved information which led to the ban was false in the first place. Someone has to beat K9 to it 
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« Last Edit: December 20, 2006, 02:16: PM by Denis_Carthy »
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k9media
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« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2006, 02:41: PM » |
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Got a link for me Dennis? I'll gladly report this on K9 Magazine.com - we are all about balance and fairness of reporting.
We get this chap who rings me up every once in a while who represents the e-collar parliamentary lobby (so he's pro). He always tends to pull us up when we report on the latest RSPCA or Kennel Club stance on the collar but as I always explain to him, we are publishing their views not ours and we are more than happy to air the other side so long as it's coherent and newsworthy.
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Yorkie
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« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2006, 02:42: PM » |
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I was just about to ask for the same as I'm not finding anything about this 'breaking news' on any of the search engines ?????
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Denis_Carthy
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« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2006, 06:05: PM » |
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Yorki- I'm not finding anything about this 'breaking news' on any of the search engines ????? Your reading the first link Yorki - the ban was lifted 3 months ago but I never got round to posting till now, I have had nothing much to do with other countries e-collar thing beyond it coming up when I have spoked to trainers/breeders I know and as far as I know this is the first UK web post on it, I did not pick the info up on the net. You can confirm for your own mind if you want, either make contact with some APDT or your type of trainer over there another alternative is to contact the Italian Embassy, not sure if the embassy would know anything but they will give the right give dept in Italy to contact and ask them.
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« Last Edit: December 20, 2006, 06:12: PM by Denis_Carthy »
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Denis_Carthy
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« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2006, 06:07: PM » |
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K9- PM.
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Yorkie
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« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2006, 06:45: PM » |
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Doglistener
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« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2006, 12:23: PM » |
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Yorki- I'm not finding anything about this 'breaking news' on any of the search engines ????? Your reading the first link Yorki - the ban was lifted 3 months ago but I never got round to posting till now, I have had nothing much to do with other countries e-collar thing beyond it coming up when I have spoked to trainers/breeders I know and as far as I know this is the first UK web post on it, I did not pick the info up on the net. You can confirm for your own mind if you want, either make contact with some APDT or your type of trainer over there another alternative is to contact the Italian Embassy, not sure if the embassy would know anything but they will give the right give dept in Italy to contact and ask them. Absolute Garbage as usual no confirmation no links then Denis tells us to confirm it. Denis unless you had not noticed it was you who opened the thread. So why can you not confirm this. We all know why. Stan
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Doglistener
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« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2006, 12:29: PM » |
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Did you miss this one Denis http://www.keeponfighting.net/article.php?story=20061213184358564From RSPCA: The RSPCA has warmly welcomed the announcement that Wales will outlaw cruel electric shock collars for dogs and is calling on the government to extend the ban to England.
National Assembly Minister for Environment, Planning and Countryside, Carwyn Jones, said Wales will bring forward legislation to ban dog shock collars through the Animal Welfare Act.
Electrical stimulation or shock collars are devices through which a trainer or owner can remotely deliver a shock to a dog, using pain as a punisher in order to suppress a target behaviour.
"Shock collars work by causing a dog pain, which the RSPCA and all animal welfare groups believe is completely unacceptable," said David Bowles, RSPCA head of external affairs. "We hope this wise, welfare-based decision from Wales will be replicated by the government in England, and that a ban on electric shock collars for dogs can come into force in both countries without delay."
Inhumane and ineffective The RSPCA believes that positive reward-based training is both more humane and more effective. The use of punishment techniques in dog training has been associated instead with an increase in the incidence of problem behaviours.*
As long ago as 2000, the Association of Chief Police Officers urged police forces not to use electric shock collars after they heard evidence from the RSPCA and other animal welfare groups. Furthermore, the Armed Forces dog unit has also prohibited electric shock collars.
"Back in 2002, during the initial consultation on what is now the Animal Welfare Act, the RSPCA recommended that a new offence should be created prohibiting the sale and use of devices designed for the training or control of companion animals that work by causing the animal pain," said Mr Bowles.
"Hopefully the Welsh example will now spur parliament on to also introduce a ban in England under the Animal Welfare Act."
The RSPCA is particularly concerned that shock collars are freely available to the public and are sold with minimal instruction, adding to their scope for misuse either through ignorance by owners untrained to use them, or through malice by those intent on deliberate cruelty.
The Animal Welfare Act, passed in November 2006, will come into force in Wales on 28 March 2007 and in England on 6 April 2007. Stan
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Denis_Carthy
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« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2006, 01:03: PM » |
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Really Stan, you must live in some kind of time warp – everyone new about it 8 days ago, K9 informed us all on this board – it’s nothing to do with us, we are Westminster, Scotland and Wales have their own Parliaments, our process is over, there was a ban in Italy, lifted 3 months ago because of new information. By the way, it's not a ban yet, it's a vote thats all and so far no one here seems to know the Welsh Parliaments proceedure, I know I don't PAC is the only collar thats has had sales in Wales in any quantity and almost all to farmers, PAC is not a part of ECMA, ECMA is the rep of collars here, try and keep up to date Stan, we all knew 8 days ago. Italy Lift E-Collar Ban - December 20, 2006, 02:00: PM http://www.petfriendlyworld.com/chat/index.php?topic=6679.0Dogchat - K9- « Reply #744 on: December 15, 2006, 12:54: PM Champdogs- Lindsay Date 15.12.06 17:43 PM. http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/board/topic/94587.htmlDogsey- Lizziel- 15-12-2006 7-30pm http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php?t=51098
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« Last Edit: December 23, 2006, 01:10: PM by Denis_Carthy »
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Denis_Carthy
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« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2006, 01:18: PM » |
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Doglistener - You can confirm for your own mind if you want, either make contact with some APDT or your type of trainer over there another alternative is to contact the Italian Embassy, not sure if the embassy would know anything but they will give the right give dept in Italy to contact and ask them. I don’t need to confirm anything I write no more than anyone else who writes, it's up to others too refute something 'rationaly'. I have already given anyone who wishes the means to find out for them selves – the fact they don’t bother is down to them, apart from that you knew nothing about Italies situation one way or the other until I mentioned it here.Yorki could have found the right Italian ministry (as can anyone else) and confirmed and also put their phone number etc online here. You can confirm for your own mind if you want, either make contact with some APDT or your type of trainer over there, and in your case there are plenty gundog trainers over there, another alternative is to contact the Italian Embassy when it reopens, not sure if the embassy would know anything but they will give the right give dept in Italy to contact and ask them. The info is no more than a couple of phone calls away and has been for a few days, no one bothered.
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« Last Edit: December 23, 2006, 01:21: PM by Denis_Carthy »
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Doglistener
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« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2006, 01:46: PM » |
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Silly me, little numbskull that I am, At last Denis being honest. I should have expected the previous post. I don’t need to confirm anything I write no more than anyone else who writes Show us proof man or just shut up. Stan
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Yorkie
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« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2006, 11:25: AM » |
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Denis_Carthy
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« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2006, 01:38: PM » |
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As usual, two APDT members totally underestimating the intelligence of readers on this forum. The is no ban in e-collars in Italy, people do not have to prove anything on these forums, if someone makes a statement that is a sensible statement its then down to others to prove them wrong No government writes about laws that do not exist for the simple obvious reason there is no record of something which does not exist. I don’t have to prove there is no law saying a policeman has to levitate 3 feet above the ground to make an arrest, I don’t have to prove because it does not exist. It’s VERY easy for either of you to call the embassy, get the Italian equivalent of DEFRA’s number and from their get the web link showing the law, it’s exactly the same as here, Yorki could have done since I put it online, she hasn’t because there is no law against e-collars in Italy so she can’t. So show us the Italian law on e-collars if you think there is one, there is not and therefore you cannot and thats why Yorki has not been able to put up a link in the time she has had since this post went on. Below is our government equivalents, Italy will have the same and easily translated in an Alta Vista web page translator or do you think readers are so stupid that they do not know all you have to is to make a 3P per min call to the Italian equivilent of DEFRA and you would have their equivilent, you cannot because there is no law on e-collars there, it was withdrawn– Typical of the unhealthy thinking of APDT members which you both are, how APDT members underestimate peoples intelligence and the low cognitive level APST members fundction at, not surprising dogs are being killed by them, the sooner pet owners realize what they are the better the outlook for dogs. UK Equivilents. Social Security Fraud Act 2001 http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2001/20010011.htmRoad Traffic Act 1988 http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/Ukpga_19880052_en_1.htmDDA http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1991/Ukpga_19910065_en_1.htm
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« Last Edit: December 24, 2006, 01:41: PM by Denis_Carthy »
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Doglistener
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« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2006, 04:15: PM » |
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As usual, two APDT members totally underestimating the intelligence of readers on this forum. The is no ban in e-collars in Italy, people do not have to prove anything on these forums, if someone makes a statement that is a sensible statement its then down to others to prove them wrong No government writes about laws that do not exist for the simple obvious reason there is no record of something which does not exist. I dont have to prove there is no law saying a policeman has to levitate 3 feet above the ground to make an arrest, I dont have to prove because it does not exist. Its VERY easy for either of you to call the embassy, get the Italian equivalent of DEFRAs number and from their get the web link showing the law, its exactly the same as here, Yorki could have done since I put it online, she hasnt because there is no law against e-collars in Italy so she cant. So show us the Italian law on e-collars if you think there is one, there is not and therefore you cannot and thats why Yorki has not been able to put up a link in the time she has had since this post went on. Below is our government equivalents, Italy will have the same and easily translated in an Alta Vista web page translator or do you think readers are so stupid that they do not know all you have to is to make a 3P per min call to the Italian equivilent of DEFRA and you would have their equivilent, you cannot because there is no law on e-collars there, it was withdrawn Typical of the unhealthy thinking of APDT members which you both are, how APDT members underestimate peoples intelligence and the low cognitive level APST members fundction at, not surprising dogs are being killed by them, the sooner pet owners realize what they are the better the outlook for dogs. UK Equivilents. Social Security Fraud Act 2001 http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2001/20010011.htmRoad Traffic Act 1988 http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/Ukpga_19880052_en_1.htmDDA http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1991/Ukpga_19910065_en_1.htmWhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? Been on the Coke again Denis. The moderator has even asked for proof and you cannot supply it. If you could you would we all know that. By the way I am not and never have been a member of the APDT. Wrong again Denis, but then that is the rule rather than the exception. Stan
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Yorkie
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« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2006, 12:31: AM » |
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Correct me if I'm wrong Denis, but wasn't it you who suggested that e-collars were banned in Italy? Mmmm! wasn't it also you that suggested a ban that you seem to now think didn't exist had been lifted? Away with the fairies springs to mind  Why on Earth would I want to spend my money on 'phone calls to anywhere to prove or disprove anything you say? If you want to prove a point, then please do so, if not, then why on Earth raise the issue in the first place?
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