Quote from: Doglistener on January 01, 2007, 09:38: PM
in some cases these collars bark and E cause serious behavioural problems as explained graphically by Yorkie.
Lou Castle: They only do this when used improperly.
Same as positive training Lou, it doesn't work if it isn't done properly but neither you or Denis accept this but want us to accept that e collars only cause problems when not used properly.
Lou Castle: Didja know that there are now many kennels in the US that use bark collars on all the dogs that get boarded with them? As you well know, dogs in a kennel situation rarely get much rest. One of them will bark and then they all have to respond. Then another one will bark and the rest will join in.
At these kennels, where the bark collars are in use, the dogs come home rested and calm because this out of control barking doesn't occur.
My dogs come home calm and rested from kennels Lou, but they don't have bark collars on but the owner of the kennels does use calming things like lavendar in the kennels. Very little barking, usually when someone goes into the kennels, with calm and rested dogs.
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Lou Castle: ROFL. Pretty funny Yorkie. I use the phrase "so many behaviors" and you use the phrase "many reasons." It's the same thing. Many people have asked for help with barking dogs and even without going looking for your solutions, I'm quite sure that you've offered them some help. So why is it that you now refuse to do so?
The dog that barks out of boredom and dog that barks out of fear has the same behaviour but different reasons, no Lou it isn't the same thing. As I have said earlier, I have never seen Yorkie give solutions to problems on the internet apart from recommending that they take their dog to a vet or trainer/behaviourist.
Lou Castle: Where have I said that it is the same thing?
Maybe if you had read it all you instead of scanning you would understand and remember what you had put earlier.
Quote from: Emmy on January 01, 2007, 10:50: PM
As I have said earlier, I have never seen Yorkie give solutions to problems on the internet apart from recommending that they take their dog to a vet or trainer/behaviourist.
And as I've said, I've seen her do just that and what's more when she made that absurd statement I located and posted several such posts she had made. The post that she finally decided to take part in, about the bird-chasing-dog was full of her advice as to how to treat that problem.
Yes I remember that thread well and the way you kept moving the goal posts. She accepted a challenge by you but you kept twisting things and altering them. Yorkie wasn't giving advice to anyone on the internet, she was saying how she would have handled that situation. That is a big different to that owner coming on and Yorkie telling them how to solve this problem.
Lou Castle: There are MANY more. These are just from half of the thread about the bird-chasing-dog. So please Yorkie stop telling us that you never give advice and please Emmy stop tell us that you've never seen Yorkie give advice.
Why should I when
I HAVE NEVER SEEN YORKIE GIVE ADVICE ON THE INTERNET You asked Yorkie how she would tackle the dog chasing on the beach, she wasn't giving advice, the problem NO LONGER EXISTED SO SHE COULDN'T GIVE ADVICE, so stop twisting things to make yourself look better Lou, it isn't working, those that were here at that time know the truth.
Quote from: Emmy on January 01, 2007, 10:50: PM
Only you are talking about your dog Lou, and as he is no longer with you, it isn't relevant.
I disagree and so I'll continue to ask. I'm sure that there are other dogs out there that bark when their owners aren't home so having Yorkie respond will help those owners.
I couldn't care less if you disagree or not, Yorkie responding to this won't help your dog and you are just trying to bully her into putting something up that you can shout down. It won't work Lou.
Quote from: Emmy on January 01, 2007, 10:50: PM
Only the neighbours were happy, for the dog to replace the noise with another shows that the reason for him barking hadn't been solved and possibly be more stressed or he wouldn't have replaced the noise.
What is your basis for saying that he was "possible more stressed?" And why do you think that a dog who's barking because he's left alone is stressed at all. Maybe he's bored. Maybe he's territorial. Maybe he's driving off intruders. You haven't asked any questions about this dog yet you assume that he's stressed.
The word
possibly means that this could be a reason not it was the only reason, that doesn't mean that I am assuming that the dog was stressed.
Quote from: Emmy on January 01, 2007, 10:50: PM
I saw quite a few people who were desperate for help on Doggie Door when it was up. These were for the problems that they were having caused by the e collars, and no, I can't say if they used them correctly, all I know is that were having problems but they said they were using them correctly. Doggie Door was against these collars
.
And with the attitude of opposing "these collars" I'm sure that the advice was GREAT! LOL.
Actually I was thrown off Doggie Door because I wouldn't condem them but instead tried to find out what and why it had gone wrong.
Quote from: Emmy on January 01, 2007, 10:50: PM
They have to know your articles are there before they can read them, when they buy an e collar the instructions to get to your web site isn't amongst them.
That's why I'm on over 75 lists and forums. To get the word out. On quite a few of them there are members who anytime a question about an Ecollar comes up they tell the poster to go to my website and to contact me if they have any questions.
Obviously you were not on the same boards as she was, but knowing her she wouldn't have bothered to read your aticles anyway.
Ermmm how do you find the time to be on so many boards?
Lou Castle: You said that when she first got the dog she tried so-called positive methods. They didn't work and THEN she turned to the Ecollar. This dog was doomed from the start. That had nothing to do with the Ecollar. It may have been the dog's last chance but no one was there to send her to read my articles. This was a perfect candidate for Robodog.
I brought this into it as an example that not everyone reads your articles, not everyone reads the instructions etc. and is why I think that they should be sold under licence and owners should be instructed on how to use them before being let loose on their dogs. She never tried the positive methods, she had the same attitude to them as the e collar. A clicker was clicked as loud as possible as close to his ear as she could get it. Again abuse of a gadget, and the same with choke chain and halti. Positive methods didn't fail this dog any more than the e collar did.
Lou Castle: The country you're in makes no difference. If more people were dissatisfied with them than were satisfied with them, there would be huge numbers of returns and the companies would stop doing business there. There may be more dissatisfied users percentage wise in the US but I have no doubt that still, there are more satisfied than dissatisfied users. But since you've made the statement I'll let you find a source for them and present it here.
As I have said several times, I have seen the thrown to the back of drawers. Do you really think that when people are paying between £500 to £1,000 for a dog, and then abandon it, they are going to ask for their money back for an e collar?
Quote from: Emmy on January 01, 2007, 10:50: PM
I would have loved to see you convince this person how to use an e collar as well, now that would have been fun
It sounds as if she didn't need any convincing. She went to the Ecollar when other methods didn't work. All she'd have needed was some guidance.
No Lou, she went to the e collar because she was told it would guarentee tor work and her dog would be under control. She never done any other training herself, she did send him away for training but didn't bother to find out what type of training that was. He was a lot better when she got him back but she was too idle to continue it. My opinion is that she should never be allowed a dog.
Quote from: Emmy on January 01, 2007, 11:57: PM
I don't think so. I remember that thread and the way you kept dropping extra information in.
That's because questions were asked that revealed it. It didn't change anything and that is precisely what would have happened if the owners were being questioned.
No, questions were asked and you replied then after Yorkie had worked on your reply, you put more information in even though she had asked, you withheld this information just so that you could bully her.
