Denis


What has that got to do with this board Denis, what happens on other boards is nothing to do with this, if people on there want to do things that is their problem and not the problem with this one.  Myself and other members are quite capable of reading posts that a link has sent us to, we don't need this type of abuse.

The manufacturers dont refund to the pet owner, its the retailer who refunds, the manufacturer toi him/her - apart from that you have no way of knowing anything about the e-collar market, they would have nothing to do with you or people like in the same way you would have nothing to do with them.

So to even suggest - "That is because they are all thrown to the back of draws " anything like that is a statement out of the blue, everyone returns goods they are not satisfied with not just e-collars, I returned a Tesco blender this week - I also imported the new TrTronics Pro 500 EXP when it came out in Oct.

We all know that all APDT are trying to do is cover their PTS on training failures - its the only training method which actually kills dogs - John Fisher founding member started it and we dont know how common it is, below and York never mentions it, she wants it covered up,

Mad Max Lady - post from this board now expired:

As to the APDT (? Have I got that right ?) I got one of the founding members out to my first rescue GSD. The poor dog was suffering from separation anxiety and was going through a phase of growling at anyone who came near him, apart from me. So this well-known behaviourist got me to hold the dog on the lead, then crouched low and stared menacingly at the dog until he was hysterical ........... and then told me that the dog was dangerous, untrustworthy and should be put to sleep for everyone's safety. That dog was the biggest softie you've ever met, and I've subsequently discovered that it's not unusual for a rescue dog to go through a phase of aggression while it settles into a new home.

Was APDT founder a madman?
http://www.freewebs.com/deniscarthy/wasapdtfounderamadman.htm

That did used to be the case many years ago, not these days with goods its not, to many people know their basic rights under the sale of goods act. I can't think of anyone I know who would not hesitate to return anything and for that matter I cant think of many people who would hesitate in taking a retailer to court if they did not get satisfaction, these are very simple laws not complicated expensive high court fights.

One wonders why behaviorists would recommend anything at all according to this logic. Any method or tool used or applied incorrectly can cause 'fall-out'. There is nothing whatsoever to this logic except ignorance and bias.


Mr Castle has never said that he or anyone else for that matter needs to use an ecollar in order to train a dog. Indeed he has said the opposite on many occasions for anyone capable of understanding the written word. As you are obviously not one of these people capable of understanding plain english, I guess he feels compelled to keep replying for no other reason than to correct the misinformation and misrepresentation that you continually and wilfully sprout.

You've studied operant conditioning and presumably learning theory, Jenci. It's not difficult to work out why the pain/discomfort had this effect/fall-out

I presume you mean APDT, no responsible trainer would join any organisation such as APDT for the simple reason you all have to sign that you will not educate yourselves on all and any technological progress on e-collars, no repsonible trainer would deny themselves the opportunity to learn futur technolgy in the advancement of dog safety and training. As I have said, there is little difference between APDT mentality and the Taliband mentality, both are against progress.

 Your organisation was founded in 1995 and at that point it banned itself and any member not just from useing any e-collar of the period but from learning anything about and taking advantage of modern e-collars which were not even invented untill 1998, so you have to say something, lets face look at the mess your all causeing, how can you charge for the catastrophic results below due to treat training, the dangers of which I have highlighted in the post topic, 100% failure rate lets face it Yorki (if you ever can) you have to say say something when all you have is a 100% failure rate, but your in denial! on top of that you have proven the chances of anything going wrong with an e-collar is less than the chances of being struck by lightening, anyone can see that to quote such absurd odds as being problem is a cry of desperation from deep with the asylum of lost reasoning, especially when we have evidence of one attempted death by an APDT member and even now there are only just over 500 of them.

1. Lucky Star11-05-2005, 11:29 AM
Any ideas of any other way we can train recall because this reward based way doesn't seem to be working at all?

2. Lel-11-05-2005, 02:50 PM
We still cant let Libs off when others are around or in an unenclosed area as she takes no notice when someone and their dogs appear.

3. Murphy - 11-05-2005, 02:59 PM
My Murph has a terrible recall when there's distractions

4. Marean - 13-05-2005, 08:23 PM
I have a similar problem with Harvey, he is excellent with recalls until he finds something like a plastic bottle, big sticks or another dogs toy

5. iwlass 13-05-2005, 08:31 PM
 I have been using a long line to train Molo for 2 months or more as his recall went out of the window when he became a teen-pup

6. Helena 54 - 15-05-2005, 05:42 PM
if you absolutely know that they are totally distracted and you have no chance of getting them back (like I did this morning with some rabbits!)

7. JR-Tilly- 05-12-2006, 12:47 PM
Tilly out on a long line as i live in a rural area with lots of rabbits and she has a very strong hunting instinct

http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php?t=10587

8.
Really frustrated
http://www.petfriendlyworld.com/chat/index.php?topic=6485.0

Interesting, perhaps you could point out where the APDT has stated you cannot educate yourself on E Collars. Lets call them by their real name Electronic Shock Collars. Though I am not a member and never have been I did not think they actually have said this, what they actually stated is that their members cannot use them.

Stan