Earlier I wrote
Thanks Stan, An admission of your vast experience with Ecollars. Let's not forget that you call what you did to those dogs "abusive." Your word not mine. And let's not forget that it happened 15 years ago. Yes, you're certainly up to speed on the latest happenings in Ecollars. ROFLMAO.
And Stan responded
Thank you Lou for acknowledging my vast experience
YOUR vast experience is virtually no experience. Let's see, using an Ecollar on three dogs 15 years ago comes out to one use every five years. Yep, for you that's "vast" ROFL.
you know how much I repect you opinion
Not nearly as little as I respect yours.
Personally I find all e collars abusive, so yes I used them 15 years ago and I believed them to be abusive then
But of course you didn't let that stop you. You had to earn your money so you ignored what you knew was wrong and did it anyway. Stan if your methods are so good, how come they didn't stop those dogs from chasing stock?
which is why I stopped using them.
Yep,
THREE instances later.
and I find them abusive now which is why I do not use them.
Too bad. There are other ways to use them than as you did 15 years ago. Too bad you know it all know, or you might be able to learn about those different ways. Instead you'd prefer to stay ignorant and keep your opinion intact. Don't let the facts bother you Stan, you already have your mind made up.
In fact I think it was Denis or you that said all the collars 15 years or so ago were harsh but then ruined it by saying that it a a much more high tech brutality now.
Neither of us have said anything about any "high tech brutality." This is just another one of your countless lies.
If you think I've said anything about the rest of your twaddle find the post and quote it here. Ecollars of that day were not as sophisticated as they are today, they had a different way of changing the stim level but they were just as humane as today's units.
That ROFLMAO. Not sure what that means is it some sort of quaint American expression?
No Stan. It's widely used on the Internet. I'll let you figure this one out all by yourself.
And I did not say I was on the staff of various organisations
You made a statement designed to lead everyone to believe that you were Stan. In any case let's forget the "being on the staff" thing, I'll let that slide. But you did say that you were
THE behavioral advisor for (an unnamed company) Shooting Times (magazine) and Burns (Dog Food).
That statement was a lie. You're not
THE behavioral advisor for any of those companies. You're one of many, a far less important position than you'd have us believe.
Folks now look at what Stan writes. This entire mess that follows is a quote from his post.
Obsessed? Why do you say this? Do you deny that it happens? Is it not a tragedy when so-called positive methods fail and a dog dies because it's owner refused to try a bark collar that would definitely stop the barking?
Quote from: Doglistener on January 01, 2007, 09:38: PM
You have mentioned it dozens of times.
Yes and??? Do you have some point Stan?
Quote from: Doglistener on January 01, 2007, 09:38: PM
I am not often called out because of continual barking it appears very rare with my clients.
That's great Stan. Try reading this forum and see how often it's a problem. In any case, what's your point?
Quote from: Doglistener on January 01, 2007, 09:38: PM
Perhaps because they have not just bought a dog because it appeared fashionable then left it all day without stimulation and the proper toys. With lack of exercise and without proper training poor food and little attention.
Do you think that these are the only reasons that a dog will bark when it's left alone?
Folks, Stan is falling apart. Now he can't even use the forum's quoting features properly and what little proofreading skills he once had are gone. He's run his statements and mine together so badly I'm not even going to try and separate them. Are you getting "tired" Stan or is there something else at work?
you missed out the bit where I said it was often the owner that needs training, so how often do you put your disgusting collars on the owners?
Ecollars aren't disgusting Stan but your closed mind certainly is. As I've said MANY times before, each of my clients feels the stim during the training.
Earlier I wrote
Bark collars do not emit sprays of citronella or anything else Stan. They give the dog a stim. With all your claimed vast knowledge of these tools you make the same error as Emmy, showing us once AGAIN that you're not as knowledgeable about these tools as you'd like us to believe.
Don't they Lou, is that a fact?
Yes it is Stan. This terminology is the same over the world among those who truly know about Ecollars. We understand your confusion.
When was the last time you were in the UK?
About four years ago when I judged a SAR competition and gave an Ecollar workshop. Nothing has changed about the terminology since then. All you're doing here is displaying your own ignorance of the terminology, something that's so basic that every dog trainer should know it. This is a bit reminiscent of when I said that I could read dogs very well because I'd taken many bites and you thought that meant accidental bites sustained during training. You had no experience in the field of biting dogs and had no idea that was a reference to putting on protective gear and having the dog bite you as part of his training. You weren't familiar with that terminology and you don't know this jargon either.
Matty you asked how I know that Stan is ignorant about the Ecollar and I told you it was because of things he's said. Here is a prime example. He wants everyone to think that he knows about Ecollars so he can come off as an intelligent dog trainer but he doesn't even know the terminology. And he makes it worse by arguing that he does and trying to make it look as if Denis and I are the ones who are wrong here.
Clueless, simply clueless!
Stop putting your insular slant on the rest of the World. You know very little outside your own little township do not try and act the knowleadgable international expert.
Stan my "own little township" the City of Los Angeles, is over 4,000 square miles. Compare that to your area, London, at about 609 square miles. That's about six times as large. Comparing the population of those same areas we come up with 9.9 million for LA and 7.5 million for London; about 1.5 times as many people here. So it would appear that my "own little township" is considerably larger, both in size and population, than yours!
I train dogs as a sideline, not my profession and yet I've done 34 seminars across the US, in the UK, Spain and Canada. I'm quite familiar with use and terminology of Ecollars the world over. Let's also remember that in the US Ecollar use is much more widespread than in the UK. The terminology is the same around the world. The only place it's different is in "Stanland" where Stan knows all and no one else knows anything.
Of course we've already proven that you know nothing about the training or working of biting dogs in any form. We already know that you only deal with pets and their problems while I deal with sport biting dogs such as those for SchH, ring sport and KNPV, real biting dogs such as for police, personal protection and the military, and pets too. We already know that I've been using Ecollars on a daily basis for 18-20 years putting them on well over 2.000 dogs and that you've used them three times in 15 years. We already know that your dog training knowledge is quite limited in span and mine is quite wide.
So for you to talk about me "putting an insular slant on the rest of the World" is quite amusing.
