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Author Topic: APDT Training Statement - Say No to Treats.  (Read 1932 times)
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Doglistener
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« Reply #255 on: January 02, 2007, 11:00: AM »

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Doglistener- Show me the proof of this. Show me the figures. Oh don't tell me that is privileged information. Like Denis you throw about statistics like confetti none of them provable none of them peer referenced. Just confetti.

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We dont need to show proof, you have no knowledge of e-collars or anything to do with, I am well known in the e-collar world and have legitmate reasons on offer when I want information I ask for, I don't actually get all the information I ask for because my sources either dont have it without a lot of work to get it or alternatively they feel that giveing the information at that point in time is not a good idea, for a number of reasons.

Oh please Denis you must stop making me laugh it hurts. Of course you are well known. I will repeat again I even think your name is false, so under which name and where are you well known? By the way what reasons would they want to hide information?

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Your cognitive reasoning is quite amusing, if I used the same reasoning I would expect APDT to answer questions I would like to put to them, I'm sure I would get whats commonly known as 'a frosty reception'.


Related to what. Why have you said this, it makes no sense like you copier analogy

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Lets face it Doglistener, your nothing in the dog training world, just a no body, oh sure to those who know nothing you might seem something to them, I don't doubt for a minuet that some naive pet owners stare in awe with your sales patter, but in the real world of dog trainers your a nobody, allways will be, who on earth would want to give you privaledged info on e-collar areas outside the normal public domain and what reasons would you give for wanting it?

Try typing in Dog Behaviourist in Google. Try typing in Dog trainer in Google Try typing Dog Trainer London, then type Stan Rawlinson in Google or any other search engines for these terms. by the way my rankings are not paid for they are natural rankings, because I am quoted and peer referenced in hundreds if not thousands of different places. Then type in Denis Carthy. I rest my case my lord. The mans an idiot

By the way why would it be privileged information? Why would they want to hide information that would prove these collars worth? What have they got to hide?

Stan
« Last Edit: January 02, 2007, 12:48: PM by Doglistener » Logged
Yorkie
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« Reply #256 on: January 02, 2007, 11:15: AM »

There are MANY more.  These are just from half of the thread about the bird-chasing-dog.  So please Yorkie stop telling us that you never give advice and please Emmy stop tell us that you've never seen Yorkie give advice. 

Ah, that ole language barrier thing again!!

A little same as the advertising theme Lou - you know, the oh yes you do, oh no I don't which culminated in you 'proving' I advertise because a client recommended my services Smile

But, in a strange sort of way, if you dig deep into the realms of thinking outside the box then I suppose you are correct. Looks like I'll have to 'CHANGE MY WORDING'

I really must practice this, 'thinking outside the box', because I'm obviously not very good at it (commonly/likely Smile )
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Yorkie
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« Reply #257 on: January 02, 2007, 11:25: AM »

Similarly, I said I didn't advertise my services on forums/boards such as these and you went to great lengths to say that I did.

It's obvious that you do.  You needn't say, "Call me and pay me if you need help."  The mere fact that you've told everyone that you're a professional and that you give advice is enough. 


I really must brush up my marketing techniques Smile. I don't think people are somehow getting my current marketing technique of 'here I am, now try to find me'. Oops! I'm not thinking outside that box again, am I?

Stan - ROFLMAO - rolling on the floor laughing my ass off.

Lou - won't entertain something - in the context that Emmy used it meant the dog won't take any notice of/has no interest in
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Yorkie
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« Reply #258 on: January 02, 2007, 11:34: AM »

'How do you garantee to stop a dog barking in the abscence of its owner AND how much does it cost and is a full refund garanteed if it fails'? e.g. someone is at Tesco or work, the dog starts to bark - how do you stop it?

I'm not playing those games Denis. I have, however, posted two or three summaries of true cases where each time a different approach was taken that solved the problem for those particular owners and DOGS.

I wonder, Denis,

in the posts I quoted from another board where anti-bark collars had been used with dire consequence

how happy the owners would have been to receive their money back for the product and any behavioural charges that the vet might or might not have made.

Question for you Denis - I've seen you say that you do talks etc and only charge 'expenses'. Do you ever do anything for free apart from when you fail??
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Yorkie
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« Reply #259 on: January 02, 2007, 11:46: AM »

Hang on, hey, I'm getting the hang of this 'thinking outside the box' - Denis you don't actually not charge when you do fail do you? Don't you still charge the client all your travelling expenses?
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Lou Castle
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« Reply #260 on: January 02, 2007, 02:32: PM »

Anyway, I'd still like to ask a couple of questions:
1. Do you (any e-collar advocates) use 'positive re-enforcement' methods in addition to e-collar use?

That would be included under the heading of "just about every tool and method extant in dog training." 

2. Do you believe that every purchaser of the e-collars read the instructions and various guideline websites

Of course not.  But since you asked, do you think that people using so-called positive methods read books about it?  Do you think they go to trainers to learn how to use the tool?  Do you think that method is without problems? 

(I ask this, because on the one hand, you urge that I/we see the e-collar in the hands of a 'competent, professional trainer', whilst on the other telling me that no training of the owner is required).

You've never seen me write anything like this last statement.  I don't recall hearing anyone but Stan make this statement and then he's trying to allege that either Denis or I said it. 

3. Would you feel able to train a dog without the e-collar?


Already answered twice. 
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Lou Castle, Los Angeles, CA
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Doglistener
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« Reply #261 on: January 02, 2007, 02:47: PM »

Denis

I put in E Collar expert London into Google nothing came up about Electronic Collars so they must not be called E Collars.

I then put Electronic Collars London and this came up first:  Aliens of London / World War Three, and the second was advocates for animals which are rabidly against shock collars. I thought the first one was you for a second as you are a conspiracy theorist.

So I then put in Electronic Dog Collars London and I checked it all the way to page 5 No Denis Carthy.

I then put in dog training London Guess who came up first Denis? I then put in Dog trainer WORLD guess who came up fourth out of 2,080,000

Of course I am not really all that well known, This is from my website statistics.
Total Hits   339750
Total Files   199693
Total Pages   8446

This is for December which is traditionally a bad month because of the holiday xmas and new year, you know what I mean   

Oh and Denis you may wish to watch Sky News tonight I am being interviewed live and I am also on the Sky news website regarding the attack on the child and  quoted as a leading dog expert http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1245723,00.html But off course I am unknown

I see you have ignored my suggestion that I supply the moderator with a letter from the APDT wonder why.
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Lou Castle
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« Reply #262 on: January 02, 2007, 03:08: PM »

  That is why we do not answer many of your posts.

You don't answer my questions because you either don't know the answers or you know that it will pin you down and make you look bad.  But it's good that you admit that you are purposefully don't answer my questions.  You know how any response will make you look. 

Earlier Stan wrote: 
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I do not cry poverty unlike you, who states you have never made a profit.

And I responded: 
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Another Stan lie!  ROFL.  I've never "cried poverty

OMG how many times has this man said he doesn't make a profit that he has no real vested interest then he comes out with this. Reality check please!

Sanity check please.  Since when is saying that I don't make a profit and don't have a vested interest "crying poverty."  Stan have you always had trouble with the English language or is it just recently. 

Earlier I wrote
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When did I say that you were suffering Stan?

On the numerous occasions you and Denis have said that we are only against E Collars because it is putting us out of business. Or have you conveniently forgotten that. You appear to be forgetting a lot lately.

Stan it appears that you are unable to read and understand simple English sentences.  I didn't say that you were being put out of business I quite clearly said that as Ecollars grow in popularity you'll lose clients.  There a significant difference but it's obviously too subtle for you. 

Earlier I wrote in response to a moderator's post: 
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My God, the horror.  Subjecting those poor 100 dogs to the abuse of your "really loud" shout, hurting their poor little ears like that; damaging their psyches for life.

And when Stan wrote this
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I use the word quiet and it works for me. Not a advanced circuitry zapper in sight.

I replied with
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I bet that works very well when you're not home.  Just about anyone can quiet their dog when they're home; that's no special skill.  ROFL.

Whats the difference? One is by a moderator. We call the people Toadies who do this in the UK. Toadying up to people in charge such as moderators, what do you call them in America.

I replied to the moderator as I did because he was joking around.  My reply was in the same mode.  I replied to you as I did because you were being your usual nasty Stan self. 

But want to see some toadying up?  Look at the exchange between Stan and the moderator after he sent in some articles that he'd written long ago.  But really, who cares? 

By the say I have never had ONE one problem ever with any of my dogs crying at home. I teach them to bark on request and once I have don that it is easy to teach them not to barkin numerous circumstances.

Well that's great Stan.  People who don't have problems, don't have problems. 

I have a little remote camera and sound pickup that can be used as a microphone that plugs into my laptop. I observe the dogs and can give commands even though I am not there, like a bark collar but without the serious  behavioural problems they can produce.

Well there's a great bit of dog training advice.  "Just purchase this camera and sound system (hundreds, if not thousands of dollars) closely monitor it every second in case your dog barks and if he does quickly give him a command to stop."  Do you supply the cameras and sound system?  Might think about that, it could boost your profits quite a bit.  You're probably going to need it in a couple of years. 

That is how I would have taught your dog. But of course you are going to say “done that tried that” as you normally do. Or you will say I thought you said  you did not give advice. Therefore what is the use of telling you

No I never would have even considered such nonsense.  And it's quite fitting that you'd suggest it.  I have better things to do than to sit around monitoring a TV and sound system waiting for my dog to bark so that I can give him a command to stop.  This is the stupidest response to a barking problem that I've ever heard.  ROFL. 

Earlier I wrote
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Another Stan lie.  I never said that you "do not need to ask questions."  I said that you didn't need an extensive list, such as you use.  Some basic questions are always OK.


I am not going to trawl through your interminable posts but you did say this. You actually ticked a whole lists of things you did not feel important like age when purchased, medical history, feeding regime etc etc etc

What was actually said, (Folks Stan has recently developed a problem with reality and memory.  Notice that his writing falls apart late at night and it's nearly as poor in the morning.  There's a cycle going on here that he desperately denies.  Stan, admitting that you have a problem is the first step to recovery!) was that your specific questions were not necessary, that I obtain the needed information by asking more general ones that give me the same information.  When I say "Tell me about your dog" I get the dog's history.  I don't need to ask your interminable list of questions.  I spent nearly 30 years interviewing witnesses and interrogating crooks, I'm well versed in how to get necessary information. 

Earlier I wrote
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I certainly don't, that would mean spending time with a client learning about them, getting a feel for them and finding out how they think.  Stan has already told us how he does it.  He gives them a questionnaire and has them fill it out even before he arrives.

No I don't,

That's what you said in another thread.  Like you, I'm not going to trawl through your posts to find it.  You're not that important. 

Amazing all the other links appear to work for you Lou. Weasel words indeed. E mail the link or PM it then. Now that what I call a lie.

No need to email it or PM it. I prefer to deal with you in public where there's at least a semblance of courtesy.  Here's the link.  It takes me to the forum index.  Searches for "surfer," "bird chasing dog," "chasing," and "seagull" didn't turn up the thread. 

http://dogchat.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3737&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=260


Earlier I wrote
Quote
Yep, that was the case.  The dog was so fixated on chasing seagulls that he would chase them until he literally passed out.  As soon as he recovered enough, he was up chasing them again if they were in sight.

But Lou you clearly said you did not say this a few posts ago

I don't think so Stan.  Since if was "a few posts ago" you should be able to find it and quote it, including the link to that post. 

I think the posters will make their own mind up who the liar is on this forum.

I'm pretty sure they already have.  I'm not the one who claimed to be "THE behavioral advisor to three companies."  That was you and we know that it was a lie.  We also know that you tried to change it without telling any of us so that we wouldn't know about your change.  You didn't come clean until several of us started investigating you and discovered the truth. 
« Last Edit: January 02, 2007, 03:10: PM by Lou Castle » Logged

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Lou Castle, Los Angeles, CA
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www.loucastle.com
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« Reply #263 on: January 02, 2007, 03:24: PM »

Quote
I'd imagine that Yorkie and Stan and Emmy are 'educated' about e-collars, and still disagree with them.

I don't know about Emmy, but neither Stan nor Yorki are educated when it comes to modern ecollar use. Neither of them have witnessed a competent, professional trainer demonstrating modern ecollar techniques.




You're right, Lou, it wasn't you who used those exact words, rather someone on the "ecollar" side of the fence.  Nevertheless, you 'all' have said that Yorkie, Emmy and Stan are not 'educated' on the use of e-collars, and indeed, that Stan specifically had used them in the past, but used old models and used them incorrectly (I gather - please correct me if I'm wrong).  So should the anti-ecollar brigade witness a 'competent, professional trainer demonstrating modern ecollar techniques', or is reading the literature sufficient?  If reading the literature is sufficent, then surely Stan, Emmy and Yorkie HAVE been educated on modern ecollar use.
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Yorkie
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« Reply #264 on: January 02, 2007, 03:27: PM »

Sanity check please.  Since when is saying that I don't make a profit and don't have a vested interest "crying poverty."  Stan have you always had trouble with the English language or is it just recently. 

Sorry, can't resist - try thinking outside the box, Lou
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Doglistener
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« Reply #265 on: January 02, 2007, 03:28: PM »

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Well that's great Stan.  People who don't have problems, don't have problems.  


That's right and those that have problems have problems because they cannot work a way out of it.

Quote from: Doglistener on Today at 09:47 AM
I have a little remote camera and sound pickup that can be used as a microphone that plugs into my laptop. I observe the dogs and can give commands even though I am not there, like a bark collar but without the serious  behavioural problems they can produce.

Quote
Well there's a great bit of dog training advice.  "Just purchase this camera and sound system (hundreds, if not thousands of dollars) closely monitor it every second in case your dog barks and if he does quickly give him a command to stop."  Do you supply the cameras and sound system?  Might think about that, it could boost your profits quite a bit.  You're probably going to need it in a couple of years.  


Yes it is a great piece of advice already had the laptop so all the other equipment cost less than £100. Now forgive me if I am wrong that is cheaper than one of you Zap collars isn't it? When are you going to get into your head that observation it vital for the treatment of dogs. And that convincing the dog you can stoll control it and watch its movements even though your not there works fantastically well. Not lets slap on a collar and shock the beejabers out of them with all the residual behaviour problems that can create.

Quote from: Doglistener on Today at 09:47 AM
That is how I would have taught your dog. But of course you are going to say “done that tried that” as you normally do. Or you will say I thought you said  you did not give advice. Therefore what is the use of telling you

Lou states
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No I never would have even considered such nonsense.  And it's quite fitting that you'd suggest it.  I have better things to do than to sit around monitoring a TV and sound system waiting for my dog to bark so that I can give him a command to stop.  This is the stupidest response to a barking problem that I've ever heard.  ROFL.  


Of course you wouldn't you are not bright enough. And if I had to wait around all day for him to bark then they would not be a problem now would there? You really have not the slightest idea of dog behaviour have you?

Lou posted
Quote
You don't answer my questions because you either don't know the answers or you know that it will pin you down and make you look bad.  


Read again what I wrote you know the bit you  missed out the bit where you goaded some one into an answer and then hit them with the fact they were giving advice. I find that more that cynical it is a disgrace. Bully boy tactics of the worst kind.

Stan
« Last Edit: January 02, 2007, 03:32: PM by Doglistener » Logged
Lou Castle
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« Reply #266 on: January 02, 2007, 03:30: PM »

Earlier Yorkie wrote: 
Quote
Similarly, I said I didn't advertise my services on forums/boards such as these and you went to great lengths to say that I did.

And I replied
Quote
It's obvious that you do.  You needn't say, "Call me and pay me if you need help."  The mere fact that you've told everyone that you're a professional and that you give advice is enough. 


Where is it obvious that she does in what post in what thread?

Subtlety Stan.  It's not your strong suit is it? 

I have looked at her personal information and her signature at the bottom ,nothing Lou! nothing to suggest this at all. Will you please stop ASSUMING you irritating LITTLE MAN.

Reasonable, rational people (I understand why you have a problem with this) draw cogent conclusions from what people say and write.  One needn't have neon signs 6' tall that say "BUY MY SERVICES" in order to be selling themselves and/or their services. 

By the way I have checked your signature and have checked your personal information and guess what. You are doing exactly what you accuse her of. That in my book is the most cynical and blatant comment I have ever come across. I have no problem with you saying who you are, and promoting your website which you clearly are and your e mail address. But do not castigate others for your decision to do so.

Good read Stan.  You were able to determine from what's written on my website,
Quote
I'm available for seminars, private one-on-one lessons consultations and expert testimony in court.  I presently serve as a legal consultant on K-9 matters and as an instructor at K-9 seminars across the U.S. and in Europe. I also train Police Service Dogs, SAR dogs and pets.

That my services are available for hire.  Sheer genius! 

The difference is that I don't deny it and Yorkie does.  See the difference?  Why do I doubt that you do?  ROFLMAO. 
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Lou Castle, Los Angeles, CA
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Yorkie
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« Reply #267 on: January 02, 2007, 03:36: PM »

Stan, now you need to 'think outside the box' Smile

It can be a very big box at times where Lou is concerned mind
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Lou Castle
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« Reply #268 on: January 02, 2007, 03:39: PM »

Earlier Stan wrote: 
Quote
Both stop barking both use circuitry both are a quick fix. End of story.


And I responded
Quote
Not quite the end of the story Stan.  Citronella and other types of spray collars are very poor at stopping barking.  Bark collars are very good at stopping it.  But this is something that you'd know if you knew much at all about the tools. 


Show me the proof of this.

Well Stan there's a problem with this.  You have to be able to read an comprehend and that's not something that you're very good at.  Do a search on this or any other forum about dogs for "citronella" and see how many failures there are. 

I've received many calls from people who want to buy a bark collar who have tried, and had fail, citronella collars. 

Show me the figures. Oh don't tell me that is privileged information.

I didn't quote any "official statistics" on this, I don't need to.  I'm an Ecollar trainer and one reason that people contact me is when other methods fail.  Those include trying to use citronella or other types of spray collars and sound collars as well, to stop barking. 
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Lou Castle, Los Angeles, CA
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« Reply #269 on: January 02, 2007, 03:40: PM »

By the way Lou cropping of tails is illegal in this country except for dogs that are to used as working dogs, Any idea why they allowed working dogs to still be cropped?


Can you point me to this existing bit of legislation, please - I believe it WILL be illegal, but is not currently???
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