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Author Topic: Crying / Biting puppy!  (Read 532 times)
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lynsco
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« on: January 01, 2007, 03:36: PM »

Hi there!

I have an 11 week old miniature dacshund puppy that we brought home a month ago.  Most of all she's doing great, but there are two things bothering us!

The first is the seperation problem, where whever we leave her even for a few minutes she cries the place down, we have tried everything but she still continues, I know it will take time and we havent had her long but does anyone know when this should start stopping?  I don't know if its fear, or just the fact that she is a real people dog and loves to be around us.

The second is that she sometimes goes into extreme excitement where she grabs at our trousers and hands, drawing blood and ripping clothes - this is only for a short time a day bit although she is a tiny dog is can be quite scary as her teeth are so sharp!  We have a age to put her into however when she is in these moods she is very difficult to pick up due to the twisting and biting she does! 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated - thanks!
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sarabe
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« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2007, 10:54: AM »

Quote
The first is the seperation problem, where whever we leave her even for a few minutes she cries the place down, we have tried everything but she still continues, I know it will take time and we havent had her long but does anyone know when this should start stopping?  I don't know if its fear, or just the fact that she is a real people dog and loves to be around us.

My tried and tested method for helping a dog cope with being separated from me is to have several periods of say, half an hour, where they get 100% undivided attention, playing, training, grooming followed by a period of no attention at all even though I am still present.

So I might decide that at 10am I am going to put on the answer machine and play with my dog. At 10.30 I will give a very clear "That's it" accompanied by a pat or a stroke (mine is usually a kiss but not everbodys cup of tea) and get up and go and do the washing up and make the bed or sit and read the paper and pretend that the dog is invisible. Nothing that she does for the next half hour will get my attention, short of setting fire to the house.   Then at 11 I'll acknowledge her again and carry on as normal.

She needs to learn to cope without your attention on demand and I find that eventually following the "That's it" signal the dog will take herself off and settle down knowing that I am busy and not available to her.  Eventually I should be able to leave the room when I know she is settled and she won't worry.

If you are going to leave her don't go straight away after lots of attention, give her time to settle by doing some chores or reading the paper first for a while.

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The second is that she sometimes goes into extreme excitement where she grabs at our trousers and hands, drawing blood and ripping clothes - this is only for a short time a day bit although she is a tiny dog is can be quite scary as her teeth are so sharp!  We have a age to put her into however when she is in these moods she is very difficult to pick up due to the twisting and biting she does! 

Firstly, don't use her crate to put her in when you are cross with her or when she is having a mad moment.  The crate is perfect for sleeping and resting in and for somewhere to go with a chew toy when you are busy and cannot be watching her.

Puppies mouth and bite in play. It is how they play with each other. You now have to teach her how to play with you. I recommend teaching her to play with toys and keeping the toys valuable by only ever letting her play with them with you. Let her have something suitable to chew whenever she wants it such as a nylabone or a little kong but keep all of her other toys just for interactive games with you. At every opportunity, take a toy from your pocket and encourage her to play with the toy. She may miss the toy occasionally and get you but it will be a genuine mistake.   Human hands with toys in are exciting. Human hands without toys must be boring.

When she is quiet and restful and you can have her on your lap, allow her to mouth you gently as you stroke her so that she can learn to inhibit her bite. If she bites hard, look hurt and say "ouch" If that doesn't work take her off your lap and get up and walk away.

Don't get cross when she bites or she will follow your example and get cross back.

If she has her mad manic biting moments an hour or two after eating then it would be worth looking into her diet. Lots of manufactured dog foods are high in additives and e numbers.

I feed and recommend Burns and Naturediet.  This link explains about how important diet is with regard to health and behaviour in young dogs.



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smokeybear
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« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2007, 02:09: PM »

http://www.jersey.net/~mountaindog/berner1/bitestop.htm

This link will help you understand and handle the biting which is normal behaviour
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lynsco
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« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2007, 03:26: PM »

Hiya

thanks for the advice!  The problem is that if she bites us say on the trousers, and movement from the leg or anything else seems to set her off - eg the other day she bit me on the stomach (I was on the floor) and then jumped and bit me on the back of the leg through my jeans!

As my mum is elderly she marks and bleeds easily and finds it distressing.  We have tried taking her toys away and only giving her them occasionally, but we find when she gets her toy she gets hyper and bites worse!
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sarabe
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« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2007, 04:07: PM »

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We have tried taking her toys away and only giving her them occasionally,

You misunderstand. Use her toys to show her how to play. So that she gets excited about her toys they need to be novel and not laying about on the floor all the time.

Quote
The problem is that if she bites us say on the trousers, and movement from the leg or anything else seems to set her off - eg the other day she bit me on the stomach (I was on the floor) and then jumped and bit me on the back of the leg through my jeans!

I appreciate that it is difficult but you need to stay one step ahead and invite her to play with a toy before she decides to play with your trousers. As she is such a little dog you could try leaving a couple of cardboard boxes placed strategically so that you can step into them if she is about to grab trousers and you are unable to get her attention onto an exciting toy. You could also reserve some of her daily food ration for scatter feeding and toss handfuls of kibble when walking into the room so that she learns a different behaviour. This would be especially helpful for your mum to do.

If she is having mad bitey moments then I don't recommend being on the floor with her.

If playing with her toys gets her more hyper then you need to try and play calm games. If necessary stand in the box and wait for her to calm down before gently rolling the toy for her. Encourage her to bring it back or have a second toy to get her focused back on you.

Can I ask what you are feeding her on?

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TWS
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« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2007, 01:17: PM »

Some good advice from Srabe there at the end of the day she is an 11 week old puppy that needs to be educated and stimulated use the tips suggested and things will improve until you get to the 5month 6month stage when they become rat bags again then 12 months puberty. I have to wrestle with a 6month old boy that is seven stone i would thank the lord that you like small dogs and in the moments where you are getting shredded have a laugh about me who has to rugby tackle my DDb to the floor now and pin him down to clip his toes and he has been having that done since 9 weeks to get him used to it but he is now at that complete B*****d i am not going to let you phase.

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welsh chick
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« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2007, 12:31: AM »

just like sarabe i would like to know what your little devil Twisted Evil is being fed on Very Happy

a dogs food can explain alot, you would be very suprised what is in your dogs food and the ailments a poor quality food can cause!

i have worked in a pet store for three years so know the ins and outs of the foods we stock -if i know the food i can decipher the ingredients and analysis for you, it may explain the 'mad half hours'.  or she could just be crazy! my girls are crazy as the day i got them, even though they are 9 and 6 now, but they are ESS's!
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rubyt
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« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2007, 07:04: AM »

welsh chick, am interested to know which foods would you recommend and why?
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welsh chick
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« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2007, 01:38: PM »

i know alot of dog owners like the idea of feeding raw, but, as i am sure you will agree, you really need to do your homework about it to ensure your dog is getting the correct balance of protien, oil, carbs, calcium and vitamins.  so unless you have done your homework, and really know what you are doing i would suggest a super-premium dry dog food. these are 100% natural and so have no nasty chemicals like E-numbers which you will find in alot of foods on the market.

look at the ingredients list avoid foods which state 'meat and animal dervatives ( min 4% ........) 'these foods are of a low quality they state, for example they are chicken on the bag, on inspection of the ingredints list it will say it has 'meat and animal derivatives (min 4% chicken)' this is because by law they only have to put 4% of the meat they advertise on the front of the bag in he food, the rest will be whatever they can get cheap that week, usually beef or pork.

a high quality food will not only state the meat used, but will describe it using the word 'meat'.  foods that use 'meat, meal' or just 'meal' are again of a lower quality, 'meat' is fit for human consumption before it goes into the food, for example chicken 'meat' is grade D, the same grade that goes to KFC.  'meal' however is the mechanically reclaimed protien from what is left of the carcus once we have taken the graded meat from it, this is not fit for human consumption.

Also aviod any food which has written under is ingredients list, 'Contains EC permitted ... colours/flavous/preservatives/antioxidants' these are all groups of E-numbers and they are chemicals you just dot need to add to your dogs diet. for example bakers has 'EC permitted colourants, preservatives and antioxidants' and it contains a whooping 13 different E-numbers. Shocked Mad

Another word you might be interested to learn the meaning of is 'gravy', you will find it in James Wellbeloved among other foods, it is the blended intestines of whatever animal they state, for example, 'turkey gravy' is blended turkey intestines.

my dogs have always been fed on Pro-Plan, and i have never had any problems with them, food related or otherwise.  but other foods i would happily feed are Royal Canin and Nutro.  Burns i a good natural food also, but their carb levels are well above that which a dog needs, around 50-70%so as a consequence you will feed more on burns than you would the other three foods i meantioned.

dont be put off by the price of these super premium foods, they cost around £40 for a 15kg sack, however one sack lasts my two ESS girls a whole month! so it works out a bargain at £5 per dog per week. and i know i am feeding them on the best foods available.

hope this helps
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IJF
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« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2007, 02:21: PM »

I would recommend the following site for well researched information on dog foods (it gives good information on label reading and explodes a few feeding myths):

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=main

Personally I do not like the make up of ProPlan. This is the ingredient list for adult chicken and rice:

Ingredients

Chicken (20%), Rice (15%), Maize, Dehydrated poultry protein, Maize gluten, Wheat, Animal fat, Digest, Beet pulp, Dried egg, Yeast, Fish oil, Calcium phosphate, Potassium chloride, Sodium chloride, Calcium carbonate, Minerals. Copper (as Copper Sulphate) 12 mg/Kg. Vitamin A 21000 IU/Kg, Vitamin D3 1600 IU/Kg, Vitamin E 155 mg/Kg, Vitamin C 70 mg/Kg. Antioxidant: Tocopherol rich extracts of natural origin.


-First named ingredient is 'chicken'. Great, but about 70% of chicken is water so when it is dehydrated (this is a dry food) it would be well down the ingredient list.
-Rice. As grains go this is one of the better ones.
-Maize is ingredient number 3. Maize is not a great food for dogs, being mostly carbohydrate, but also many dogs have a sensitivity to it.
-Dehydrated poultry protein. What is this?
-Maize gluten. More Maize!!
-Wheat. Another grain!!
-Animal Fat. What animal does this come from? Why is it not stated clearly (i.e. Chicken fat)?
-Digest. What's this??
-Beet pulp. Another filler, although it can firm up stools.

Don't get me wrong, there are far worse foods, but I think you could do far better.....

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smokeybear
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« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2007, 03:02: PM »

Welsh chick -

there is no proven need for carbohydrates in a dog's diet, that is why food labels do not actually mention the content.

I think you will find that comparison shopping both pork and beef are more expensive than chicken, therefore it would be illogical for PFM to put that in and not mention it.........


All food that goes into commercial dog food is fit for human consumption, this is DIFFERENT from being food that humans choose not to eat ie pigs trotters, brains etc.

I think you need to read up on the definition of meal in this context.

Nothing wrong with eating intestines, people eat them all over the world.

Opinions are not facts........

IJF

Chicken is the biggest SINGLE ingredient in this food.

All grains are carbohydrate including rice, wheat and maize

The main issue with this food is, like many others, it is the product of clever labelling ie grain splitting.

http://www.pfma.org.uk/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=114
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IJF
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« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2007, 03:17: PM »


IJF

Chicken is the biggest SINGLE ingredient in this food.

All grains are carbohydrate including rice, wheat and maize

The main issue with this food is, like many others, it is the product of clever labelling ie grain splitting.

http://www.pfma.org.uk/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=114

Smokeybear,

-I am aware that Chicken is the largest SINGLE ingredient, but I am also aware that it would not be once the moisture is removed.
-I am also aware that all grains CONTAIN carbohydrates, but whole grains are better than grain fractions and some grains are more digestible than others. I am feeding a grain free dry food at the moment (although it does contain carbohydrate).
-You correctly point out the grain splitting (4 of the top 6 ingredients are grains), which is why I am not a fan of this food.
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rubyt
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« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2007, 04:00: PM »

Sorry welsh chick, I thankyou for your reply but you did not answer my question, namely which particular foods do you recommend and why ?
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welsh chick
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« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2007, 09:01: PM »

like i said, i would recommend Pro-Plan, Nutro (who incidentally do dehydrate their meat before putting it in) or Royal Canin, for all the reasons i gave before, and carbs are needed by dogs although they provide no nutritional value, just like we need fibre even though we cant absopb it, to aid transition of food down the intestinal track.

my point about the blended intestines in the food was to show how companies use certain words to describe certain ingredients.
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smokeybear
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« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2007, 08:29: AM »

Well welsh chick can you point me to the evidence from anywhere that says carbs are required for this issue?

If you trawl the pet food manufacturer's sites they themselves say that carbs are not necessary and if they are necessary to aid digestion how did dogs survive before the advent of commercial foods? Shocked Rolling Eyes
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