Earlier I wrote:



I didn't say that I knew more than you about the effect that the TENS machine had on you, I said that I doubted that you were being honest. 

When I did the seminar in the UK I passed an Ecollar around the audience and stimmed anyone who wanted to feel what it was like.  As always the nearly universal response was, "Is that all it is?"  They nearly universally described it as a "buzz" or a "tingle."  But one woman jumped up and screamed at the top of her lungs.  Except it had happened when I wasn't pressing the button!  I thought that there was some failure with the unit and exchanged it for another one.  Her reaction, even though I was only pretending to press the button was the same.  Realizing that the chance of having two Ecollars fail at nearly the same moment was very small; I tested it on myself and it was working fine.  She refused to believe that I hadn't pressed the button! 

Later, after the seminar was over she caught me in the hallway and apologized for her behavior.  She admitted that she was rabidly anti-Ecollar and was anticipating a painful electric shock so as soon as the contact points touched her skin, she jumped as if she'd received a shock from a wall socket. 


I've never said anything of the kind Emmy and you well know it.  The fact that you make this accusation shows what kind of person YOU are. 


Earlier I wrote:


Completely overlooking the fact that not everyone uses a tightening collar or even knows they exist.  More begging the question from the champion. 

Earlier I wrote:


No this is what I say when someone thinks that the common mistakes that many pet owners make can't possibly happen to him. 


You're a liar Emmy.  Quote such a statement that I've ever made.  It depends on what's being trained. 


Yet another lie.  Quote that statement. 

Earlier I wrote:


They've asked not to be identified.  They've all said that they'd like to use Ecollars on the dogs in their shelters to make them more adoptable but given the political situation there, they can't. 


I won't play "20 questions" but none of them are from any of those shelters. 

Earlier Emmy wrote: 

And I replied

When you wrote, "We don't do the TT that is done in your rescues . . ."  You're implying that "all rescues" do this test.  You're wrong as I pointed out.  But if you want to weasel out, that's fine with me. 

Earlier I wrote:


ROFL.  You missed the point again.  It makes no difference what you tried, you still don't know if the dog would have responded to other methods. 


So that training could have been started. 


You'd like to think that it was good for her "mental attitude" but that's just an opinion.  She could have run under controlled conditions and then the training could have been started much sooner. 

Earlier I wrote:  


Your attitude, that one needs to be on the ground to "know what is happening" is absurd.  If that was the case than only a very small group of people could know anything.  The statistics (as I've cited) are there for anyone who wants to go looking for them. 


Sort of like the pages of discussion about wine? 


Earlier you said that it was the fault of the breeders who just wanted to make money.  Now it's all about the "lifestyle."  ROFL. 

Earlier Emmy wrote: 

And I responded: 

Oh so you're the spokesperson for "several" now.  The moderator has said that he thinks these discussions are interesting.  I agree with him.  As has been said before, no one is forcing anyone to read these posts.  If you find that you (or anyone) is tired of them, don't bother to read them.  My feelings won't be hurt.  ROFLMAO. 

"Hunny?"  You may have a special relationship with Denis but you don't with me.  I realize that you're confused.  I'll try to help you understand.  LOL 


Yes your confusion is obvious.  The Ecollar is the best tool for training most behaviors that exists in dog training today.  But it's not the best for everything.  Certain things, tricks for example, are usually better taught with so-called positive methods.  I taught my patrol trained dog to bark on command with them.  So it's quite obvious that I don't train with only an Ecollar. 


I guess that didn't help clear up your confusion.  Seems pretty obvious to me but I'll be patient with you.  LOL


I've been training long enough so that I know what methods will work best for a given behavior with a given dog.  Sometimes I put the Ecollar on right away and sometimes I use other methods.  It depends on what's being trained at the moment.  I work with police dogs, SAR dogs and pets.  The requirements are quite different for each group. 


Still confused I see! 


I wonder how I knew that this would be your answer to my question?  How is it that you think that your opinion about the tool has any value here?  You know nothing about the tool, how it's used, or why it works, yet you talk as if you have some experience with it.  Like many people you think you know but you really don't.  ROFL. 


I suggest that you read my website a little further.  Particularly read the articles on Simon and Roma; two very sensitive dogs whose lives were saved by an Ecollar.  I'll help you by supplying the links.  Please note the so-called positive methods that were tried on Roma before the Ecollar was used. 

http://loucastle.com/roma.htm

http://loucastle.com/simon.htm


That's great and as long as you're happy with your results, so am I.  I can't tell you how many times people have argued with me on this topic only to send me an email that starts "HELP, I need an Ecollar!" when they get the right (wrong for their methods) dog. 


He's from clipart, I have no idea how he was trained.  He looks like a typical Rottie to me.  The JRT on the home page looks happy.  I wonder why you didn't ask if he was trained with an Ecollar?  LOL. 

But if you're looking for a dog that looks happy take a look at the article on "Crittering and Dog to Dog Aggression.  http://loucastle.com/critter.htm

At the bottom of the article there's some video of two dogs playing.  One of them used to be aggressive until his owner used my Crittering protocol to stop that behavior.  See if you can tell me which dog used to be aggressive.  Both dogs look plenty happy to me, but what do I know? 

Seddie if you knew anything about Ecollars you'd know that "avoidance behavior" is not the same thing as "avoidance training." 

"Avoidance training" is jargon that's used in Ecollar work.  It has nothing to do with "avoidance behavior." 


He avoids the stim by complying with the command. 


If a pet owner can't be consistent with an Ecollar then other forms of training won't work for him either; or have you overlooked that little fact? 

As far as "impeccable timing" being necessary, it's a myth.  If a person can clap their hands and stomp their foot at the same time, they can use an Ecollar.  Anyone who can dance, even a little, can use an Ecollar.  Perfect timing means that training goes very fast but even the best professional trainer doesn't have perfect timing all day long. 

Timing is more important with so-called positive methods than with an Ecollar, something that's already been explained. 

lol  I just lose interest when it's all quotes because it feels like i'm reading posts over and over and over and over again.........................I can't even do quotes !!!!!!
I'm probably missing loads of interesting facts 

I have seen a beautiful GSD have one used on him, and hope I never see again what I saw that day.  It was used in a very cruel way and the dog eventually paid with his life he was so screwed up by this owner, the e collar was the last resort.

Lou


Yes, I do want e collars controlled and idiots not being able to get hold of them, watching a dog being punished with one is a terrible experience.  I stopped her right away but that didn't help the dog when I wasn't there.   All gadgets are good in the right hands, but in the wrong hands can do a lot of damage.  2 of my dogs have neck damage because of flat collars and in Joe's case, it could have been a choke chain. 

I have no problem with them being used on humans to keep them under contol, many of then need it and it may help empty our prisons and teach the yobs how to behave

Sometimes there are quite a lot of posts between the one you are replying to and when you reply and if others are like me, I find it helpful because the quotes remind me what has been said.   I don't often read the full quote, just enough to remind me.

To do quotes, just click on the box that says "Quote" at the top right of everyone's post, it will come into the box at the bottom of the page and you reply after the writing already in there.

I hope you can understand that, not sure I can.

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Shockcollars/
Becky

Don’t be greedy, you have already got 4 people from here (some passing through)
Radical minority group needs your help, link below.
http://www.petfriendlyworld.com/chat/index.php?topic=7038.0

Support needed for six year old petition, six years and only 1,400 sigs – please help them.
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?collars&1