Quote from: Emmy on Today at 02:28 PM
would you like to come and put a TENs machine on me and see what happens?
No not really. ROFL.
You expect me to accept your challenge but you won't accept mine.
Quote from: Emmy on Today at 02:28 PM
That is what you are saying, you are saying that you know more about something you haven't experienced than someone who has experienced it.
I've never said that I know more about a TENS machine than you do. It's a personal experience and simple common sense (which some seem to lack) would tell you that I can't possibly know your personal experience. But I HAVE spoken to many people at the moment that TENS machines were being used on them. And I've spoken go about a dozen very experienced PT techs about them. Just like Ecollars, at the very lowest level they don't emit any stim. But you tell us that this causes you "pain." And so I'm quite skeptical about your claim.
Twisting words again Lou, my words were "
you are saying that you know more about something you haven't experienced than someone who has experienced it" Although a TENs machine is supposed to take the pain away, with somepeople it makes the pain worse. When I was asked to try a TENs machine I was told about this so it isn't new, this was 6 years ago. So you now seem to know more that my physiotherapist. You can be a skeptical as you want, you don't matter.
Quote from: Emmy on Today at 02:28 PM
I also know others who feel pain with a TENs machine, are they lying as well?
At higher levels I'll attest that a TENS machine (and an Ecollar) can cause quite a lot of pain. But what I've been talking about all along is what happens at the lowest levels, the level where people first feel it. You say that it causes pain. I think that you're exaggerating, just like the woman at my seminar who screamed in "pain" before the button was even pressed.
No dear, at the lowest level, with some people it makes the pain worse.
And this:
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Actually I can speak for many others on this. I went to physical therapy for many years and saw the TENS units used on hundreds of people. Because of my interest in Ecollars and realizing that they had many similarities to Ecollars, I asked them about their experiences with them. I also asked the PT Techs about this.
Nobody can speak for others, and just because you went to physiotherapy, doesn't mean that you know all about it which is what you are putting.
Earlier I wrote:
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You are the first person that I've ever heard who has ever said that even at the lowest level she found the TENS machine painful. This was also the experience of the ten or so very experienced PT Techs that I asked about this. At the lowest level most people couldn't even feel it!
No it isn't the first time you have heard of this, I posted this up at least 2 years ago and you called me a liar then as well.
You won't mind if I have a healthy dose of skepticism about your statement will you? Especially given the way that you feel about Ecollars. LOL.
You can have what you want in the way of skepticism dear, it doesn't really affect me.
Quote from: Emmy on Today at 02:28 PM
you are saying you know more than someone who has experienced it for themselves. These words speak for themselves, I don't need to add to them
Read it again Emmy. NOWHERE does it say what you've tried to attribute to me; that I know more about it than someone who has experienced it for themselves. I do say that I doubt that you're being completely honest about your experience. That's not the same thing at all. I hope it's clear now.
I didn't have to dear, you done that yourself.
Earlier Emmy wrote:
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According to you, you put them on a dog right away to train them so don't wait to see if other methods don't work.
And I responded:
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You're a liar Emmy. Quote such a statement that I've ever made. It depends on what's being trained.
Quote from: Emmy on Today at 02:28 PM
No Lou, it isn't me that is the liar, them most consistant part of our posts is the way they are so inconsistant, you put in things to suit what you want then deny them later.
I've noticed, and I confident that others have as well that instead of bringing proof to this conversation you merely repeat your statement. Show us the quotes where I'm inconsistent Emmy. Otherwise you're still a liar.
I don't need to, others are quite capable of seeing through you dear.
Earlier Emmy wrote:
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Which cities Lou?
And I responded:
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They've asked not to be identified. They've all said that they'd like to use Ecollars on the dogs in their shelters to make them more adoptable but given the political situation there, they can't.
Quote from: Emmy on Today at 02:28 PM
Of course they have asked not to be identified because they don't exist
Of course they don't Emmy. Neither do I. I'm just a figment of your imagination . . . I wonder, how can someone who doesn't exist, ask not to be identified? ROFLMAO
If you say so dear, I do wonder if you are a figment of my imagination sometimes then find out that others have also read the rubbish you are putting out.
Earlier I wrote:
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When you wrote, "We don't do the TT that is done in your rescues . . ." You're implying that "all rescues" do this test. You're wrong as I pointed out. But if you want to weasel out, that's fine with me.
Don't need to weasel out, the other members know and understand what I mean, and you don't matter.
Quote from: Emmy on Today at 02:28 PM
No dear
I'm not Joker's "hunny" and I'm not your "dear." LOL.
Of course you are my "dear"
Quote from: Emmy on Today at 02:28 PM
it doesn't imply all rescues, it is a general "yours" and doesn't mean all of them, just quite a lot.
Your writing clearly means "all" not "quite a lot." ROFL.
You are now telling me what is in my brain now, you obviously don't understand the general
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ROFL. You missed the point again. It makes no difference what you tried, you still don't know if the dog would have responded to other methods.
No dear, I haven't missed the point, why mix a dog up by trying different methods, dogs learn much quicker if the trainer is consistant.
Quote from: Emmy on Today at 02:28 PM
No dear
Still not your "dear." LOL
Of course you are.
Quote from: Emmy on Today at 02:28 PM
I didn't miss the point
You missed it by a mile, a couple of times now.
No dear, it is you that is missing the point by a mile.
Quote from: Emmy on Today at 02:28 PM
you said in an earlier post that I could have taught Joe a good recall in 2 to 3 weeks with an e collar, in fact, I taught him a very good recall in 10 days without an e collar
You still have the opportunity to make $1000 for 99% efficiency. I've notice that you didn't respond to my challenge. I doubt that your recall is as good as you'd like to pretend.
I had forgotten about this because it is so long since I saw it, but as you won't accept my challenge, then you can't expect me to accept yours.
Quote from: Emmy on Today at 02:28 PM
If I had said I had a 90% recall off Joe, that was in 3 days but I prefer the 99% recall in 10 days. I forgot to say, that was when he was also chasing a rabbit.
Of course it is Emmy. You could shut me up for good by simply accepting my challenge. The risk is all mine, my time, my money. Yet you conveniently pretend that this challenge hasn't been issued and even modified especially for you! So it's obvious that you're lying about how good your dog's recall is.
I have already said why dear.
Quote from: Emmy on Today at 02:28 PM
Training was started as soon as she stopped running
I see no point in letting her run for two days.
I never mentioned 2 days, once again you are putting words were there isn't any.
Quote from: Emmy on Today at 02:28 PM
she learnt a lot quicker because the running stopped in her time
Just an opinion. And one I don't happen to agree with.
Who care if you agree with it or not, I certainly don't. My way worked for her and that is what matters.
Quote from: Emmy on Today at 02:28 PM
her recall took me 2 days to get a 99% recall.
Odd, earlier you wrote that it took you ten days to get a 99% recall. But now you say that it took two days. Are you talking about two different dogs?
Sorry that is a typing error, it took 2 days to get a 90% recall, and 10 days to get a 99% recall.
Quote from: Emmy on Today at 02:28 PM
Training any younster whether dog, child, horse etc, when they are full of energy is asking for the training to fail, much better to get rid of the energy first.
WHAT NONSENSE! If have too much energy was a problem then the appropriate response would be to let her burn some off and then, in the same session, start training. Letting her run for two days is a waste of two days.
Who mentioned 2 days dear, it wasn't me, again a figment of your imagination. I did say I let her run, but when you are living with a dog, every time you interact with them is a form of training. that is all I wanted from her until she settled enough to stop running.
In any case it's apparent that you're incapable of (at least with this dog) of working with her unless she's burned off her excess energy.
Resorting to insults again dear. You don't know me so don't know what I am capable of.
I like dogs to be full of energy when I work with them. It does several things. Since the dog is fresh and full of energy, he can be worked longer at a higher intensity. More can be done. More can be accomplished. I like to keep sessions short, dogs learn better when this is done but when the dog is highly energized it lets me train for just a little longer. I'm sorry that your methods are so ineffective that they can't be used on a dog that has energy to burn.
That depends on the energy, you can't train a tired dog the same as you can train a fresh dog, but nether can a hyper dog be trained successfully and she was hyper. An 8 month old collie cross that has been stuck in a crate for several months and fed on rubbish has other needs before training sessions, eg a change of food to one more suitable.
It also teaches the dog to focus, no matter how energized he is. Dogs are best trained, especially if they have some working purpose, both when they're fresh and when they're tired. Then they learn to work, no matter how they feel. When your dog is running towards the street and you call him, it shouldn’t make any difference if he's tired or if he's full of energy.
She isn't a working dog, she is a pet and always will be. She would have made a good agility dog if her back legs hadn't been broken and set crooked.
But apparently you need to burn off energy for your methods to work. If they were more effective this wouldn't be the case.
As I said a little higher up dear, it depends on the energy, she was hyper and a hyper dog doesn't stop long enough to listen. Sort out the food first and let them get rid of they hyper, then you can start to train.
Quote from: Emmy on Today at 02:28 PM
Check back, it wasn't me who started to discuss wine
I never said that you started the wine discussion but you certainly contributed to it and you still are.
Of course I did and still am dear, it is fun. Would you like some of Bill's 1994 elderberry wine? I it lovely wine
Quote from: Emmy on Today at 02:28 PM
if that is what the members want to discuss, then why stop them.
ROFL. Look at the title of the thread. [b"]E Collars?" [/b] Look at the title of this section of the forum "General DOG Chat." I realize that every thread diverges from it's intended topic at times but this went on for several pages and it still continues. It doesn't bother me but it will interfere with anyone who's trying to learn something about Ecollars. I think that's at least part of the reason that you folks do it.
So you have remembered that, good, but why stop people from having fun, only old foggies do that.
Earlier Emmy wrote
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It has everything to do with how we live, it is because of peoples lifestyles that so many dogs are in shelters.
And I responded
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Earlier you said that it was the fault of the breeders who just wanted to make money. Now it's all about the "lifestyle." ROFL.
Quote from: Emmy on Today at 02:28 PM
No Lou I didn't say breeders, there are some very good breeders about and I wouldn't want to stop them from breeding, it is the back yard breeders and the puppy farms
OK it's the back yard breeders and puppy farms. Wait . . . . Aren't they "breeders? Oh well. Have it your way. LOL.
Scraping the barrel again dear
Quote from: Emmy on Today at 02:28 PM
I don't read the posts that are put up about e collars, which is what is boring as you know
No, you're wrong, THEY'RE FASCINATING! LMAO.
Why do you think the members are talking about wine? If e collars were interesting they wouldn't need to. Just because they are interesting to you, doesn't mean they are interesting to everyone else. A lot of the members have made it clear that it is boring.
