I invited Lou to post here about 3 years ago, he is not promoting e-collars he is simply giving accurate information on modern training methods, the e-collar is the most modern advanced training in existence eliminates the problems that have existed since the upper plaistocene period, something which eliminates the old problems you have is of benefit to dogs and owners, those are facts, some facts promote themselves other facts demote themselves but it's the facts an not the carrier of facts which promote or demote.

If the accurate information "promotes" them, which you obviously think it does, then that is because people see the benefits of them due to Lous input, I invited him so UK pet owners can get the benefit of his input and to help me because people like you who's commercial buisiness interests are being affected by e-collars were blocking my input with massive posts which disrupted the topic.It is quite clear to the vast majority who read these posts that you are not posting to the benefit of pet owners and the the welfare of their dogs, you are writing with an unstated hidden agenda as your motive - summed up, everything you said amounts to  a quite simple statement to pet owners "I know nothing about e-collars and you, pet owners, should not allow yourselves to learn either, because my business will suffer if you dog.

For the majority who do not bother posting on these threads, Lous site is below, it has tons of useful info, below that is the context of e-collars and other remote training aids technological developments  (treats, long lines etc) since the beggining of mans existence with dogs.

www.loucastle.com


Archaeological evidence indicates some kind of canide has been in partnership or living in some kind of domestication situation with man since the Pleistocene period of Neanderthal. Some research suggests they could have been domesticated 100,000 years ago or more, others talk in terms of 15,000 years ago.

I have come across no archaeological reference to prehistoric tethers or leads as we know them, however, it is reasonable to suppose that as long ago as Neanderthal animal skins were sewn or tied together and used as a tether.

At some point, more likely in the 15,000 BC era, the technological advance of a separate collar might well have been invented , the purpose of a separate collar in history is unclear. I have done no serious research as regards historical written or artistic evidence of any kind of  training methods or training aids, however Egyptian art suggests domestic dogs were subject to some kind of training in that period.

The greatest technological advance on the prehistoric animal skin tether/leads were probably crafted leathers and then rope in varying lengths from short to long and most dangerous of all the flexi lead. By the around the 1960?s came man made fibre tethers/leads, these have been combined with a variety of different collars which had evolved, metal chains, leather & fibre choke collars, spike collars, prong collars, harnesses and a variety of  head cages (Haltie types) most used or attempted to be used as a training aid or a simple captivity restraint. This sums up 100,000 years of technological progress - that is until 1998 and the modern e-collar.

The damage from these state of the art technology items of their time, excluding the modern e-collar, is well known by all round experienced trainers, most of whom are only to well aware that not enough research has been carried out on any of them, their effectiveness as a training aid and the lack of publicity of their dangers.

 The 1991 studies on back problems in dogs (Hallgren) gave the unexpected correlation of 91% of dogs that had cervical (neck) anomalies, in dogs which had been exposed to harsh jerks on the leash or had a long history of pulling or straining at the end of a leash. These figures certainly form the correlation of lead pulling and skeletal damage, resulting pain can cause aggression and long term harm is almost certain.

 In 2000 D Hawgood sent a research questionnaire to 16 veterinary practices in the Norwich area, he received 13 responses, seven confirmed recorded cases of injured dogs caused by choke chains, again well above the required coefficient.

The anatomist Dalzel carried out some post-mortems on her Borzois, she found that a number of them had healed fractures of the lateral bones of the larynx. She put this down to sudden lunges on choke chains and use of halties, however that supposition is personal and not scientific. Both Dalzel and Hawgood advocate prong collars as the safest alternative, I advocate modern e-collars as the only safe alternative.

Probably the most dangerous and useless of these restraining items is the Haltie type head cages, the mental harm, owner dog relationship damage and physical harm caused by these weapons is widespread. Different designs of the same thing have attempted to give users a false sense of security by implying ?this model is better than the rest/last model(s)'.

Scientific studies have shown there is no evidence to support this commercial clap trap and records that dogs reactions to different halter head cages are no different, all dogs show severe stress reactions to all the head cage traps, study findings below:

?The responses of 12 dogs to four different head collars were compared in a crossover design over four 10 min sessions each spaced 2 weeks apart.
Group 1
 included pawing, pawing nose, biting/pawing leash, opening mouth, rubbing face, and shaking head.
 Group 2
included rearing up, balking, rushing forward, and rolling on ground.
No statistical difference was observed between dogs? reactions to the head collar types.
Based on this study, there does not appear to be an increased acceptance of one head collar type over another.

There were no long term follow ups so long term consequences are unknown but anyone glancing through the UK internet dog forums can read common cases of bleeding, severe stress reactions, a high probability of mental harm and maybe worst off all increasing owner tension & stress inevitably displaced into the family situation and backfireing on the dog.

 The fact is that these loathsome barbaric head cages are one of the mainstays of APDT type trainers who use them as a quick fix to hide inadequate training methods. Christine Brierley of Dogsense Barnsley, an APDT member, is a prime example of an inadequate trainer who resorts to these instruments of torture, The Kennel Club also allows sales of these and choking chains at it shows, this is not only disgracefull but highlights their philosophy - 'Money Before Welfare and Proper Training'.

The result of the above 100,000 years of technological development was that progress in resolving problem behaviour ( commonly, active minded dogs ignoring commands ) at distances other than a few feet could be extremely difficult to control and the sum total of a distance training aid was still a tether.

Treats, balls, toys etc were used commonly throughout the 19th & more so the20th century as teaching/training aids, tin crickets were commonly used with circus dogs of the 1950?s, today crickets are called clickers and have advanced to plastic, naive pet dog owners are told they are new, thats nonsense, clickers are old hat revamped, made in China and only cost a couple of UK pence each to import, 1000's of % proffit but a usefull training aid all the same, as were the tin versions of the 1950's.

However, despite the imense usefulness of these essential training aids in teaching a dog one group of behaviours remained as unchanged and insoluble as it had since the Pleistocene period of Neanderthal man with the exception of dogs which are genetically programed to be quiet complient dogs, that was the problem of off lead environmental and legal safety obedience, as we call it today.

This text paper charts the 48 years of  technological progress & evolution to to-days remote electro pulse muscle stimulation collars which finally reached to-days technological level in 1998 and which, in conjunction with sound methods and other training aids has permanently removed the difficulties faced by all handlers/owners of dogs for the pre-ceding 100,000 years or more of various tethers.

Modern remote e-collars are used without stress, for both dogs and handlers, and give the highest probablity of a secure, stress free, lifelong home to all dogs making them an enjoyable addition to their human family.

Refs:
1. A. Hallgren. Back problems in dogs 1991.
2. D. Hawgood 2000. The problems with choke chains.
3. B. Dalzell, Autopsies on Borzois.
4. L. I. Haug,  B. V. Beavera and M. T. Longneckerb, Comparison Of Dogs? Reactions To Four Different Head Collars.  Applied Animal Behaviour Science.
5. . Suzanne Clothier, The Problems With Head Halters.
http://www.flyingdogpress.com/headhalters.html
6. Suzanne Clothier, Training Dogs With a Prong Collar.
http://www.flyingdogpress.com/prong.html

7. Random User Examples of Typical Haltie Experience:
7a.
http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/board/topic/37442.html
7 b.
http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/board/topic/15434.html

Origins of the dog - opinions & data.
http://www.sciencenews.org/pages/sn_arc97/6_28_97/bob1.htm
http://www.idir.net/~wolf2dog/wayne1.htm

I would never use a e-collar as i think its a lazy way of training your dog whats the fun in just putting a collar on.
I would never spend that kind of money on a training collar if i was gonna pay out for something to train my dog i would get a trainer in to show me the best way to do things.

Choccielab
I`v use a halti for my boxer and when my Samoyed was with us she had one as well I`ve never has a prob with them.
I have tryed other ways to stop the pulling but always go back to the halti.
Did you put the halti on right? Was the halti on to tight around your dogs nose?
I know lots of people that use the halti....

Regarding head harnesses, I have a very mixed opinion. They can help many owners control their dogs, which can only be a good thing. HOWEVER, I also see many a dog at training who is either trying to paw it off their nose or rubbing their face along the ground (Haltis, Gentle Leaders, Canny Collars) trying to get it off. I do not understand why people think this is acceptable when it is obviously causing distress to the dog. Many of these same people would throw a fit at a pinch collar or an e-collar???

I had a trainer at the time and she fitted it, then we tried a bigger size and that just went right up over her eyes........my trainer referred me to a police dog handler in the end as she was a real handful outside and he threw them in the bin !!!! My shepherd has passed away now though  

Cheers Denis,  it's bloody depressing I can tell you.......think I'm going insane........................

Since when is using electric shocks and 'advanced' method of training? Sorry using any method that physically punishes the dog for wrong behaviour is morally reprehensible.
Becky
http://members.aol.com/ukaim/frame.htm?c_shock.htm