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Ryan
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« on: April 08, 2003, 09:37: AM » |
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I recently had a conversation (for conversation, read: argument) with someone who told me he thought Labradors were misrepresented as intelligent when in his (professional) experience he believed them to be one of the least intelligent of all the breeds siting their willingness to do pretty much anything for anyone as displaying a distinct lack of grey matter. As a Labrador owner, of course, I vigorously protested. The whole debate did leave me wondering though about how canine intelligence is measured and how it manifests itself in breed to breed.
I'll give you some examples.
My friend owns a Border Terrier x Patterdale. This dog has got an unreal character, really he is such fun but totally on a different level to my Labradors - If I am being honest I look at him and generally get the feeling that 'he just aint wired up right' to put it bluntly. Since by debate though I have looked at him very differently - he NEVER does anything he's told EVER. He is completely independent (well almost) and he has a great life doing pretty much whatever he wants when he wants. Is he more clever than my own dog?
I am really interested to get some opinion on breed specific intelligence.
Here are some modern stereotypes for you.
Labradors / G Retrievers / = Really intelligent, great family dogs
Collies = Stunning levels of intelligence, must be worked
Staffies = Fun, bright, great family dogs
GSD = Very clever, need experienced owner
Yorkshire Terrier = Full of character, not as clever as a Border Collie ?
I am very keen to see what people's actual individual experiences are and how intelligence is measured. If a dog trains easy is he intelligent - if a dog refuses to pretty much do anything - is he intelligent?
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Why, when you blow in a dog's face, do they get really frustrated and angry but the minute they get the chance to stick their head out of a moving car at 70mph they can't wait?
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Snorri the Priest
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« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2003, 01:21: PM » |
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Being a Border Collie owner, I suppose I shouldn't really say anything here  , after all, we all know that BCs are the smartest, right ?  I have thought, now and again, that the way to measure the intelligence of a dog is to count the number of new ways it finds to rattle YOUR cage! BCs are very good at that! As can be boxers, GSDs and C/Spaniels (and, no doubt, others)! One of my BCs reacts "correctly" to over 150 words/phrases, but is not too good at physical problems. The other is not so great on words, but is an absolute expert at opening doors and undoing knots. So, despite a statement in a dog magazine ("a Border Collie has the problem-handling ability of a 12 year old child"), all members of one breed are not the same. I suspect that the answer may be that the intelligence measure is "How well does the dog adapt to/control its surroundings in order to make its life as easy and successful as possible?". If being obedient works best in doing that, then obedience is the criterion. If being independent is better for the individual, then that is the criterion. Whilst the level of intelligence may not be the same, humans are as different as dogs. Sure, humans made it to the Moon, built lovely buildings, developed the computer, but certainly I have met quite a few who are pretty damn stupid (no names, no pack drill ) Snorri (with the problem-handling abilities of a 12 year old Border Collie) |
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Jerakeen
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« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2003, 02:51: PM » |
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I thought my terriers were bright until I got my poodles! That is bright! my Boxer is nicknamed Mr Thickie because he is so dense! However, thankfully one of his sons Bailey is very bright and takes after their mother (a terrier) his brother is brain damaged so I wont pass judgement on that!
I've never thought of Labradors and retrievers as being particularly intelligent though!
Bec
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snowpaws
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« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2003, 03:30: PM » |
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It depends what you mean by intelligent! There are alot of breeds that are very intelligent and show it like border collies, but if you were to walk with them by your side into a lamppost, they would probably just do it. Other breeds like huskies are intelligent, but independant, so will obey commands when they feel like it and not at other times! I have first hand experience of this. I often seems as though my husky is giving me the finger (in a doggy way) !!!
Sometimes on a walk he will come straight back and be perfectly behaved, and other times he just gives you a look like not today!!
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Emmy
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Breeds: JRT/Whippet, Greyhound, Staffy/Cairn, BC/Lab, Border Terrier/Whippet
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Ban the deed not the breed
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« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2003, 11:27: PM » |
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There used to be 2 litter brothers who lived near me, one was very quick to learn, reasonably obedient, and had quite a nice personallity. The other was so thick then he didn't know when he had done wrong no matter how you tried to tell him. In desperation his owner gave him quite a few smacks with his hand, and the dog just lay down. Was this dog thick, or did he work out that if he acted like this he could get away with everything?
A lot seems to depend on the breed and what he has been bred for. Some breeds have been bred to be obedient and some to think for themselves but which are the most intelligent, is the same as how long is a piece of string.
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Mad Max Lady
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« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2003, 09:52: AM » |
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I read somewhere (and I'm afraid I can't remember where) that Poodles are the most intelligent breed, followed by Border Collies, followed by GSDs. Having said that, not all dogs of the same breed have anything like the same characteristics. My first GSD had been very badly treated by his first owners, was under socialised and had spent his first 18 months in a kennel. Bless him, he was a wonderful dog, but nobody could have accused him of being Einstein! Max, however, our current GSD is the smartest dog I've ever come across. He trained me in a week to do all sorts of things!!  I've never thought of labs as particularly bright, but I guess we all have our favourite breeds. My parents used to own Chow-Chows, which are listed somewhere as one of the stupidest dogs, but I always thought they were far too clever to do anything some mere human told them to do. |
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autumn cinn
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« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2003, 12:41: AM » |
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 I have to say it has been my experince that it is not the breed but the dogs personality itself. my newf and I just finished a long three months of traing for therapy dog and obedince . she did wonderful but because her personality can be a little stubborn it took us longer with some things than other different dogs in our class. it also seemed the owner with the more athoritive voice got futher faster but didn't have as much fun. |
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debbie
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« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2003, 02:29: AM » |
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As a Jack Russell Terrier owner I must defend my breed and say I think they are the most intelligent and cleverest of dogs !! There has to be a reason that the #1 service dog's for the disabled,blind are Labrador's and Goldens. And I don't believe it's because they're dumb. They have to learn a laundry list of things to qualify to be a service dog. And just because they are compliant , doesn't mean they are stupid. In the U.S they are one of the top dogs on the AKC registry. There must be something good about them. People shouldn't put specific breeds down. All Dogs are wonderful, if they weren't there wouldn't be forums like this for us to gush about them !! |
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 Maisy and Sassafrass Louise ~Jack Russell Terriers~ |
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Somebody
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« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2003, 02:43: PM » |
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Well, I agree with you, Snowpaws. It depends on what you think to be an intelligence. A dog can be intelligent, if she obeys you and does everything you ask her. In this case she will become the obedience champion. Isn't this dog an intelligent one? On other side, she is stupid, because she obeys some human with no reason. And if you think this way, you will think that dogs that have the mind on their own, that think on your orders before doing it are very intelligent, too. She has her own life and manages it on her own. Isn't she an intelligent dog? And so on.
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GSDowner
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« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2003, 09:32: PM » |
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My GSD boy fell out of the dumb tree and hit every branch on the way down!!!! To be honest it is more a case of that it has never really occurred to him to do anything else other what he is told to. It makes him very trainable and he learns things very quickly. I taught him how to close a door on cue armed with clicker and treats in two ten minute sessions one day. He's just a really nice dog who likes learning tricks and doesn't do too much thinking! Likes the easy life too much for that!
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Anonymous
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« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2003, 11:56: PM » |
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hmmm!!
Interesting question.
I have GSD's BC's and BC x's...7 dogs in all.
I have to say, without a doubt, my purebred Border collie dog is the most intelligent dog I have, and indeed, have ever known.
He seems to understand everything I say. He knows if I smile at him, he's been good. If i point right or left, thats the way he runs. (My GSD's just stare at me like I'm nuts!!) It's like he understands everything I do. ( hubby reckons if I were a dog, I'd be a BC too, apparently I have the temperament!!!)
However, I sometimes wonder about my BC...we have an RAF base near us, and he is constantly chasing the jets that fly overhead!!
I'm waiting to see if he catches one and brings it home to Mom!!
Take care all
Lisa
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snowpaws
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« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2003, 09:23: PM » |
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I'd like to see him try get that through the dog flap!?
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Lisa_safftash
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« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2003, 08:29: PM » |
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That would be interesting to see!! |
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Lisa
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Snorri the Priest
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« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2003, 11:58: PM » |
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