Update on Tess

[Coco-Loco]

Tess is now on day 15 of her season and over the last 24 hours has almost reverted back to being the dog that she was 3 months ago. She is now happy to have a bit of fussing with no signs of tension and even rolled onto her back this morning for her tummy tickling. Two days ago she tensed up at any touch and slinked off under the table to hide if you even suggested any contact.

I am convinced that her hormones have been to blame for her behaviour and I am now hopeful that we can work with her to make further improvements. However, I am under no illusions that she will ever be 100% so we will always be cautious with her and respect her boundaries.

I have a T Touch consultation booked for this afternoon and I hope that this will go some way towards tackling her long term discomfort with being handled (particularly grooming and examination).

I also have some Phytopet Balance on order to help her body with the hormones and that should arrive in the next couple of days but maybe we won't need this now.

When asked last week if the vet could suggest anything to help her hormones she only suggested early spaying, from as soon as one month's time. I am very reluctant to do this and would rather let Tess go right through until everything is back to normal in her body. I am just hoping we don't have a bad phantom or a rapid arrival of her next season. I have heard a lot of stories of collies who have been late with their first season going on to have problems with irregular or frequent seasons thereafter together with phantom pregnancies and moodiness.

I think if I had known earlier what I know now I would have had Tess spayed when she was 6-12 months old but as time went on I thought that the season must be imminent and didn't want to spay her whilst she was in an hormonal state. We live and learn!

I will update on the T Touch later.

[cava14una]

Really glad things are looking a bit brighter for Tess.:thumbup1:

I would agree with waiting until you feel she is back to pre season state before spaying her.

[Bump]

That all sounds more hopeful than a few days ago. I'm glad things are looking up for Tess. You never know how things might play out with phantoms or irregular cycles, but TBH I think I'd be wanting to wait three months before spaying, too.

I'll be really interested to hear how the TTouch goes.

[Coco-Loco]

We've had our T Touch session, for a whole 3 hours this afternoon. Much of the time was spent talking and observing because it was obvious that Tess wasn't ready for a lot of handling. The aim was to do a few touches (face and chest circles and ear slides) but to stop as soon as she showed any calming signals and before she got too aroused so that she begins to trust that we understand her calming signals and that we stop when she's had enough. We need to continue practicing these and moving on to more circles or moving along her body a little.

We also did some balance work outside using some guttering set out in a labyrinth and some frames for stepping through. We used a double ended lead to create a balance lead which gives me far better control of her without needing the halti.

The T Touch lady doesn't think that Tess is a nasty dog but she thinks that she has a lot of issues going on in her body that she needs to sort out to enable her to worry less about what is going on around her. She explained it as a Trinny & Susannah effect - before the makeover you are too worried about what you look and feel like to think about enjoying life, after changing your perception of your body all the hassles are sorted so you only have to think about enjoying yourself.

I was a little disappointed that we didn't appear to achieve very much this afternoon, but I suppose this is only to be expected given what Tess has been like for the last 3 weeks. If she continues to improve at the same rate as she has done for the last 48 hours I think we will move on a lot more quickly.

I haven't booked another session yet, I will see how she goes with us practicing the exercises and how she is in herself.

[Sassy Lassy]

Pam,
I am really pleased to hear you more positive about Tess. I think its great that you have seen a difference since her cooming out of season.

As for the T Touch, well i am going to read with interest too as i am a sceptic i ahve to say. The Trinny and Suzannah is a very clever illustration, sales tewchnique ploy in my mind... but i will reserve judgement.

[Coco-Loco]

A lot of the touch part is either using accupressure points eg. the ears or (so I am told) the circles send messages to the brain via nerve impulses which promotes good circulation and healing as well as allowing relaxation.

The respect and communication thing I think is probably common sense - you start off with what your dog will tolerate and gradually push the boundaries a little bit further so that your dog trusts you more and more and is happier to let you go further each time. We did this with grooming, trying a little, rewarding, going a little further, rewarding, etc. until she was more comfortable with being groomed all over.

PS. She is still very much in season as she is only on day 15 and still dripping (she had a couple of days when she didn't seem to drip but she has started again now). She is still doing a lot of cleaning and obviously wondering what is happening to her.

[katy]

glad to hear things are looking up MDT :)

[Charliezeta]

Im so pleased Tess is improving ! Yes Id def. wait until the hormones of her season subside before spaying- although a phantom could catch you out- it did us.....

[Unicorn]

If you continue to give her something to help balance her hormones, a phantom pregnancy is unlikely.

[Bump]

If you continue to give her something to help balance her hormones, a phantom pregnancy is unlikely.

Good point. Fingers crossed...

[Denisemcleod]

.

[Denisemcleod]

TTouch pays dividends in my views with some dogs or dog/owner relationships.

In my view any form of regular hands on technique that is pleasasnt for dog and handler is going to benefit the relationship. Just magne you commited to masaging your partner for ab hour everday for a month - how would that change your relationship??? !!! ??? !!!

A lot of the body awareness stuff they do with TTOuch, the obstacle courses and wraps and different surface training, is also good stuff for some dogs with limited lifestylesd.

THere is no doubt in anyones mind as far as I know, that agility often brings about remarkable transformations in a dogs view of itself, itself confidence and its inward feeliings of peace. For the same reasons as TTOuch in many ways. Being aware of your whole body is crucial to confidence.

MOST dogs do not "KNOW" they have back legs(They can not move independently from their front legs or position them in specific locations independantly) for example. A fact that many owners do not understand. When a dog is atttempting to genotiate a stlye for example for the first time, this can bring about enormous frustration and confusion for the dog wearing at its self confidence and generating in some cases acute fear. Back leg awareness can be taught to the dog or the dogs lifestyle (living where it has to regularly negotiate styles and difficult fences) may teach it. But it is a good thing to teach any dog. Walking along a layed down ladder is Sarabes way and I think that is a great method.

Body awareness in my view is crucial to confidence building in dogs.

[ruff!]

TTouch is very good. I did a workshop once to find out about it and it was very interesting. You also forget that we take different surfaces for granted where for a dog they can be scary or cold etc. It is good bonding as well.

[Sassy Lassy]

Cool.

[sarabe]

That's great Pam. I hope she continues to improve.

I have used TTouch with a couple of my dogs. It is very effective. Seen some amazing results.

[Ridcully1968]

Think I'll look up more on TTouch, sounds interesting, might help calm my boy.

Glad its working for her.

[Denisemcleod]

You also forget that we take different surfaces for granted where for a dog they can be scary or cold etc. It is good bonding as well.

Absolutely true! Most dogs have direct biological responses to the surfaces they are on. Any dog trained to toilet on concrete, will seek concrete, any dog trained on grass, will seek grass etc.

[Sassy Lassy]

Absolutely true! Most dogs have direct biological responses to the surfaces they are on. Any dog trained to toilet on concrete, will seek concrete, any dog trained on grass, will seek grass etc.

Now thats true. Logan will only wee if his feet are touching grass. Even if he is bursting to go in a morning and we walk along the road for 10 mins until we get to a park, he will not go until we reach the grass in the park.

[smokeybear]

This is why the puppy rule of 12 is so important..........

[Sassy Lassy]

This is why the puppy rule of 12 is so important..........

Say what? (you knew i was going to say that)

[kazschow]

hehehee

[smokeybear]

Yes I did........

The Puppy’s Rule of Twelve

Make sure all experiences are safe and positive for the puppy. Each encounter should include treats and lots of praise. Slow down and add distance if your puppy is scared!
By the time a puppy is 12 weeks old, it should have:
(If your puppy is over 12 weeks start right away with this socialization guide.)
Experienced 12 different surfaces: wood, woodchips, carpet, tile, cement, linoleum, grass, wet grass, dirt, mud, puddles, deep pea gravel, grates, uneven surfaces, on a table, on a chair, etc......

Played with 12 different objects: fuzzy toys, big & small balls, hard toys, funny sounding toys,wooden items, paper or cardboard items, milk jugs, metal items, car keys, etc.......
Experienced 12 different locations: front yard (daily), other people’s homes, school yard, lake,pond, river, boat, basement, elevator, car, moving car, garage, laundry room, kennel, veterinarian hospital (just to say hi & visit, lots of cookies, no vaccinations), grooming salon (just to say hi), etc....

Met and played with 12 new people (outside of family): include children, adults (mostly men),elderly adults, people in wheelchairs, walkers, people with canes, crutches, hats, sunglasses, etc….

Exposed to 12 different noises (ALWAYS keep positive and watch puppy’s comfort level – we don’t want the puppy scared): garage door opening, doorbell, children playing, babies screaming, big trucks, Harley motorcycles, skateboards, washing machine, shopping carts rolling, power boat, clapping, loud singing, pan dropping, horses neighing, vacuums, lawnmowers, birthday party, etc…
Exposed to 12 fast moving objects (don’t allow to chase): skateboards, roller-skates, bicycles, motorcycles, cars, people running, cats running, scooters, vacuums, children running, children playing soccer, squirrels, cats, horses running, cows running, etc…
Experienced 12 different challenges: climb on, in, off and around a box, go through a cardboard tunnel, climb up and down steps, climb over obstacles, play hide & seek, go in and out a doorway with a step up or down, exposed to an electric sliding door, umbrella, balloons, walk on a wobbly table (plank of wood with a small rock underneath), jump over a broom, climb over a log, bathtub (and bath) etc....

Handled by owner (& family) 12 times a week: hold under arm (like a football), hold to chest,hold on floor near owner, hold in-between owner’s legs, hold head, look in ears, mouth, in-between toes, hold and take temperature (ask veterinarian), hold like a baby, trim toe nails, hold in lap, etc…
Eaten from 12 different shaped containers: wobbly bowl, metal, cardboard box, paper, coffee cup, china, pie plate, plastic, frying pan, Kong, Treatball, Bustercube, spoon fed, paper bag, etc......

Eaten in 12 different locations: back yard, front yard, crate, kitchen, basement, laundry room, bathroom, friend’s house, car, school yard, bathtub, up high (on work bench), under umbrella, etc....

Played with 12 different puppies (or safe adult dogs) as much as possible.
Left alone safely, away from family & other animals (5-45 minutes) 12 times a week.
Experienced a leash and collar 12 different times in 12 different locations.

[kazschow]

When I got Benny at six months he'd experienced virtually none of these!!! A year on on the 1st of June, he's caught up big time, at least he doesn't literally crap himself walking through doorways, spin frantically if traffic goes past or throw himself on the floor shaking and crying, on shiny floor surfaces....

12 fantastic rules I thnk all new puppy owners should adhere to.... you should sticky this list Ryan, it would be useful for any new dog owner.

[smokeybear]

I took this list with my youngest dog and he had accomplished all this and more between when I got him at 7 weeks and 12 weeks.

It seems very demanding at first but you would be surprised how easy it is. I think this is one of the reasons he is so confident.

[Sassy Lassy]

Ah yes i remeber seeing this before...
Should be a sticky in training defo.

SB- is that your GSD your talking of?

[kazschow]

I bet it is.... I think we've acieved most of them now, just six months too late, but better late than never I guess, he's turned into a lovely confident well balanced boy, but defo much harder work with an older pup.

Only one I've defo not don is carrying him under my arm like a footbal, he was 25kg when I got him hehehee. I'd have to beuilt like a brick sh*t house to manage that lol

[smokeybear]

You wimp!

[katy]

he was 25kg when I got him hehehee. I'd have to beuilt like a brick sh*t house to manage that lol

hey - Tig weighs that and I can carry her under 1 arm, I'm no sh*t house!!!!

[Bump]

I bet it is.... I think we've acieved most of them now, just six months too late, but better late than never I guess, he's turned into a lovely confident well balanced boy, but defo much harder work with an older pup.

Only one I've defo not don is carrying him under my arm like a footbal, he was 25kg when I got him hehehee. I'd have to beuilt like a brick sh*t house to manage that lol

LOL - in the gym with you, gal!

[kazschow]

Oh dear god, better get that mutt slung under my arm then... he's 30kg's now is that get out of jail free card!!! Or do I have to cart Sisky under the other arm for balance hehehee

Where did all you russian shot putters come from on here, I'm sure you weren't here when I joined lol

[Sassy Lassy]

I used to be able to pick Logan up when i first had him as he was a lightweight and underweight. He was 35k then. But he is filling out very nicely now and i would only be able to pick half of him up. He is as tall as me when he puts his paws on my shoulders!

[kazschow]

BUt were you lifting him correctly like a footbal under one arm!!!

hehehee

[Bump]

One under each arm is definitely the only way to go. Unbalanced lifting can cause untold back problems!

Seriously, don't try this at home, folks! My 6kg jrt is about all I can handle under one arm these days.

[Bump]

MDT - how's Tess doing?

[Coco-Loco]

MDT - how's Tess doing?

Thanks for asking Bump, the conversation seems to have taken a little diversion.

Tess is doing great. This last two days she has been completely different and has really gone back to being her old self. I am now convinced that she was suffering an horrendous bout of PMT. We are still understandably cautious with her and probably a bit nervous if we are honest but it is as though the clock has been turned back 3 months and we have our old dog back. I am so glad now that I didn't follow the vet and trainer's advice to have her put to sleep or rehomed immediately. I know that she will never be 100% safe but I also know that she is not the evil, aggressive dog that they portrayed. I am glad we were indecisive and waited to see what happened.

My main concern now is to get her spayed at just the right time - once she is over this season and before she starts gearing up to the next one. I don't want to go through the last 2 months again. I'm just hoping that she isn't one of those bitches with really irregular/fast recurring cycles. The vet offered to spay her as early as in 3 weeks time if upon examination her body appears to have reverted back to normal. I would rather wait until we are out of the post-season period to make sure that she is as settled as possible. I've got her on Phytopet Balance (agnus castus, pulsatilla and dandelion) which will hopefully manage her hormones a little and with luck avoid any nasty phantoms or continued problems.

[Bump]

That sounds really positive. I'm sure this hasn't been easy for you, balancing the risks against Tess's welfare. Keep us posted.

[Unicorn]

Glad she's doing better!

I am so glad now that I didn't follow the vet and trainer's advice to have her put to sleep or rehomed immediately. I know that she will never be 100% safe but I also know that she is not the evil, aggressive dog that they portrayed. I am glad we were indecisive and waited to see what happened.

I'm incredulous that vets don't give anything to hormonal bitches, or recommend anything for that matter. It is more than obvious that some bitches suffer badly with their hormones and become unpredictable (their way of saying they need some help). How many other bitches are PTS due to hormone issues because it is confused with a dangerous and aggressive dog?

[smokeybear]

Well none should be if pet owners ask for a referral to a behaviourist.

And some vets DO recommend various things for hormonal bitches, as always it depends on your vet.

Just the same way as some doctors are pro HRT and others are not.

[Unicorn]

All doctors are aware that many women have hormonal issues when they are menstruating.

All vets should also be aware that bitches can suffer the same issues.

[Sassy Lassy]

Thanks for asking Bump, the conversation seems to have taken a little diversion.

Tess is doing great. This last two days she has been completely different and has really gone back to being her old self. I am now convinced that she was suffering an horrendous bout of PMT. We are still understandably cautious with her and probably a bit nervous if we are honest but it is as though the clock has been turned back 3 months and we have our old dog back. .

I am so happy to read this. I have a big smile on my face. What a relief for you all that you can see these improvements. It looks like yopuve turned a corner and learned alot.
Well done Tess!

[Charliezeta]

And some vets DO recommend various things for hormonal bitches, as always it depends on your vet.

Just the same way as some doctors are pro HRT and others are not.my JR was put on Galastop by my vet to bring a phantom pregnancy to an end before spaying. SB is right-ask your vet for this if Tess shows any sign of deveoping a phantom.

[Coco-Loco]

I'm a bit disappointed with both vets that I saw in terms of hormone problems. The first vet saw Tess before her season started and when I asked about testing her hormones he said he could do nothing as it would require several tests to look at the changes in her hormones. IMO if a bitch is very late in having her first season it would not be unreasonable to expect an abnormal count when blood testing. I would also have expected that certain hormones would be at a much higher level on the lead up to a season. But I have no vetinary training so maybe that is just wishful thinking.

The second vet saw Tess prior to her season starting, could see no visible/physical signs of it arriving and suggested booking her in the following week for spaying. She started bleeding 3 days later. A week later when we went back for her post x-ray consultation and I asked if there were any remedies to help hormonally temperamental bitches and all that was suggested was early spaying - as soon as 5 1/2 weeks from the date that her season started. The vet dismissed my suggestion of homeopathy as a waste of my money. In her opinion Tess was a volatile dog with aggression and dominance problems and we should re-home, pts or engage some very firm behavioural training. Tess is actually a submissive, insecure dog who reacts badly to any attempts to dominate her. When I took my insurance form into the surgery this vet was stood at the desk and I took pleasure in telling her that Tess was much improved and that I believed her problems to be hormonal.

I think it is very sad that vets do not look beyond their standard text books to offer alternative suggestions.

So now I have been to three of the local surgeries. The first - I didn't think was thorough enough and had previously given Milbemax to my BC puppy (not recommended by manufacturers), I tried a different practice when Tess had colitis but didn't like the 2 hour queue or the fact that there was no continuity in the staff (different vets, none of whom had a good command of the english language) and I was charged a second consultation fee to be told that Tess had recovered - I could have told them that but returned for a follow up as requested. This third one was nearby, convenient hours, nice and friendly, thorough, but disappointing advice from a vet who has a BC or her own and reluctant to consider alternatives.

I really don't know whether to stay with them or try another different vet. The other one in our town has a bad reputation so I wouldn't try there unless as a last resort. There is another one about 3 miles away which I could try but I don't know anything about them. The insurance company might get a bit twitchy if I continue to chop and change.

[Bump]

I really don't know whether to stay with them or try another different vet. The other one in our town has a bad reputation so I wouldn't try there unless as a last resort. There is another one about 3 miles away which I could try but I don't know anything about them. The insurance company might get a bit twitchy if I continue to chop and change.

Just a thought, but does the one 3miles away have a website, perhaps? That might give you some idea of who they are, what they do etc. Other than that, maybe make a list of things you want to know and give them a ring and chat through your situation. Perhaps even ask to speak to one of the vets? If you know the names of the individual vets, run them through google as well to see if they are involved in teaching, research etc, or have any connections with local organisations etc (just to give you a feel). It's sometimes quite surprising what you can find out by searching around.